4 ms·

The danger being that it annoys various non-racists as well. Probably not so much a step in the right direction.

rbanffy 6y ago
Why is the annoyance more important than being inclusive? If we want others to feel welcome in our community, we may need to do some accommodation. There is a huge value in attracting more people and making a language change is a very minor annoyance compared to the benefit those fellow users and developers will bring.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  I'm a minority and, like many, I see this as just playing word games; the inclusivity equivalent of security theater. I have no expectation of any significant gains in new developers from this sort of thing and therefore no inclination to praise or support it. I would go so far as to say that I am annoyed that this is allegedly being done for my sake as a minority. If businesses and organizations seriously want to help inclusivity, send money for tech education to schools with a high proportion of URMs. Send volunteers too. Send something that actually represents a significant sacrifice. Not this.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    Demands like this came from minorities. It's a small, easy thing. Not every project is sufficiently well funded and connected (probably none is) to directly contribute or influence school budgets. Many communities, however, have outreach programs and some measure of support for minorities (funding for conferences used to be one, when we had conferences). To do more groundwork, we'd need more connectedness on the ground. I'd love to be able to ensure a fair distribution of resources to schools, but that's where we would need to interact more with human rights activists that know how to be the most effective, while making sure we manage organization's funds in a way that's in accordance to its bylaws (which may need to be changed before anything else).
    - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
      > "Demands like this came from minorities. It's a small, easy thing..." While some minority individuals may have demanded this, it seems more to me that the driving force is largely white people. And that it's small and easy serves only to highlight its triviality. Thanks but no thanks.
      - rbanffy 6y ago
        That may be a reflection of current power structures in place. The driving force behind a lot of the open source is of white males because of historical suppression of minorities, so it's inevitable that some of these minor initial steps would come from white males or would need to be embraced by white males.

Why is the annoyance more important than being inclusive? If we want others to feel welcome in our community, we may need to do some accommodation. There is a huge value in attracting more people and making a language change is a very minor annoyance compared to the benefit those fellow users and developers will bring.

ThrowawayR2 6y ago
I'm a minority and, like many, I see this as just playing word games; the inclusivity equivalent of security theater. I have no expectation of any significant gains in new developers from this sort of thing and therefore no inclination to praise or support it. I would go so far as to say that I am annoyed that this is allegedly being done for my sake as a minority. If businesses and organizations seriously want to help inclusivity, send money for tech education to schools with a high proportion of URMs. Send volunteers too. Send something that actually represents a significant sacrifice. Not this.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  Demands like this came from minorities. It's a small, easy thing. Not every project is sufficiently well funded and connected (probably none is) to directly contribute or influence school budgets. Many communities, however, have outreach programs and some measure of support for minorities (funding for conferences used to be one, when we had conferences). To do more groundwork, we'd need more connectedness on the ground. I'd love to be able to ensure a fair distribution of resources to schools, but that's where we would need to interact more with human rights activists that know how to be the most effective, while making sure we manage organization's funds in a way that's in accordance to its bylaws (which may need to be changed before anything else).
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    > "Demands like this came from minorities. It's a small, easy thing..." While some minority individuals may have demanded this, it seems more to me that the driving force is largely white people. And that it's small and easy serves only to highlight its triviality. Thanks but no thanks.
    - rbanffy 6y ago
      That may be a reflection of current power structures in place. The driving force behind a lot of the open source is of white males because of historical suppression of minorities, so it's inevitable that some of these minor initial steps would come from white males or would need to be embraced by white males.