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Stalin wanted to assassinate John Wayne because of his anti-Communism.(https://web.archive.org/web/20080602054832/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml

by TMWNN 6y ago

Stalin wanted to assassinate John Wayne because of his anti-Communism.(https://web.archive.org/web/20080602054832/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=%2Farts%2F2004%2F06%2F04%2Fbfstalin04.xml&page=5 https://web.archive.org/web/20080602054832/http://www.telegr...)

TheSpine 6y ago
I swear, fiction isn't as good as fact. If you made that into a movie, people would say the plot line was ridiculous.
mc32 6y ago
That would have been too heavy handed. Yuri Bezmenov has an interview where he explains the more subtle way the USSR would weaken the US (after Stalin’s time) Yuri was right. All along the US thought it was projecting soft power via Hollywood movies, and it did and does but there are other dimensions to the whole thing, and given our system of governance there is no way to avoid getting to where we are. In the USSR and China today, it’s not up to factions to make up or derive what ones principles are, what the mores are, who the authorities are. There is no equivocation, it always comes from the state. Teachers, professors, etc., anyone questioning certain tenets would get nudges or more aggressive tactics to cease those lines of thinking.
- throwanem 6y ago
  I believe the interview you mention is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jFfrWKHB1Gc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jFfrWKHB1Gc - I'm not yet familiar with it myself. edit: And having duly familiarized myself, I have to say, I appreciate you mentioning it! High-grade Bircher nonsense is tough to come by these days, and it makes a nice, nostalgic diversion from its more modern and more dangerous conspiracy-theory descendants, like antivax stuff and QAnon. Nothing but respect for Bezmenov and his obvious grift, but it's not a surprise to me that anyone still peddling this nonsense with a straight face in 2020 would do so in a way that's cagey. I mean, you could hardly expect to be taken seriously if you were more upfront with it, could you?
- LiquidSky 6y ago
  Could you explain what Bezmenov is right about? It's not clear from your comment. What was the subtle way the USSR would weaken the US?
- herbstein 6y ago
  Yuri Bezmenov was also a nobody who instantly became a darling of the American far-right. The interview you're referring to is by the Alex Jones-like conspiracy nut G. Edward Griffin. Bezmenov became "famous" by reinforcing every far-right fear of "communist indoctrination" in American society. I would love to know how you think this has manifested in American society. The interview you're talking about is from 1984, and he's warning how these effects will start manifesting in the next 10-15-20 years. He, in fact, defected in early 1970. Let's be generous and say the changes would come after roughly 25 years. Where is the sweeping ideological and policy changes that in the mid-90s made the US so much more subversive and/or communist? I see little to no evidence of this. In fact, the Bezmenov interview is carted out by all people trying to explain a change in the political landscape. Current-day liberals (in the American sense) use the (context-less) interview to claim it's indicative of current Russian measures. At the same time Republicans use it to prove that there's a "both sides", and that issues like trans rights and the internment camps are simply subversive claims by a foreign power. Both of these narratives try to show that the "us" isn't inherently flawed, but that we're deliberately pushed in a "subversive" direction by an evil, all-powerful force. It's a comforting truth, in a way. You maintain the positive self-image while gaining a common enemy. Sure, you're mad at the other side for falling for the lie. But ultimately the common enemy is even worse. Edit: Changed the second paragraph to reflect the year he defected
  - ravenstine 6y ago
    > Yuri Bezmenov was also a nobody who instantly became a darling of the American far-right. The interview you're referring to is by the Alex Jones-like conspiracy nut G. Edward Griffin. Bezmenov became "famous" by reinforcing every far-right fear of "communist indoctrination" in American society. You're engaging in weak thinking known as "guilt by association". Whatever merit the rest of your statements have, it's totally irrelevant whether the "far-right" likes Bezmenov or if the person who interviewed him was a "conspiracy theorist". It's weak because it says nothing about Bezmenov himself, and at worst it is an attempt to shut down any counter argument. (association to the "far-right" and "conspiracy theorist" are common tactics to shut down arguments)
    - 6y ago
yoloswagins 6y ago
I am reasonably certain that Stalin had Warren Bechtel, one of the builders of Hoover Dam, die on a visit to Russia. "Dad" Bechtel was a virulent anti-communist.

by TMWNN 6y ago

TheSpine 6y ago

I swear, fiction isn't as good as fact. If you made that into a movie, people would say the plot line was ridiculous.

mc32 6y ago

That would have been too heavy handed. Yuri Bezmenov has an interview where he explains the more subtle way the USSR would weaken the US (after Stalin’s time) Yuri was right. All along the US thought it was projecting soft power via Hollywood movies, and it did and does but there are other dimensions to the whole thing, and given our system of governance there is no way to avoid getting to where we are. In the USSR and China today, it’s not up to factions to make up or derive what ones principles are, what the mores are, who the authorities are. There is no equivocation, it always comes from the state. Teachers, professors, etc., anyone questioning certain tenets would get nudges or more aggressive tactics to cease those lines of thinking.

throwanem 6y ago
I believe the interview you mention is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jFfrWKHB1Gc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jFfrWKHB1Gc - I'm not yet familiar with it myself. edit: And having duly familiarized myself, I have to say, I appreciate you mentioning it! High-grade Bircher nonsense is tough to come by these days, and it makes a nice, nostalgic diversion from its more modern and more dangerous conspiracy-theory descendants, like antivax stuff and QAnon. Nothing but respect for Bezmenov and his obvious grift, but it's not a surprise to me that anyone still peddling this nonsense with a straight face in 2020 would do so in a way that's cagey. I mean, you could hardly expect to be taken seriously if you were more upfront with it, could you?
LiquidSky 6y ago
Could you explain what Bezmenov is right about? It's not clear from your comment. What was the subtle way the USSR would weaken the US?
herbstein 6y ago
Yuri Bezmenov was also a nobody who instantly became a darling of the American far-right. The interview you're referring to is by the Alex Jones-like conspiracy nut G. Edward Griffin. Bezmenov became "famous" by reinforcing every far-right fear of "communist indoctrination" in American society. I would love to know how you think this has manifested in American society. The interview you're talking about is from 1984, and he's warning how these effects will start manifesting in the next 10-15-20 years. He, in fact, defected in early 1970. Let's be generous and say the changes would come after roughly 25 years. Where is the sweeping ideological and policy changes that in the mid-90s made the US so much more subversive and/or communist? I see little to no evidence of this. In fact, the Bezmenov interview is carted out by all people trying to explain a change in the political landscape. Current-day liberals (in the American sense) use the (context-less) interview to claim it's indicative of current Russian measures. At the same time Republicans use it to prove that there's a "both sides", and that issues like trans rights and the internment camps are simply subversive claims by a foreign power. Both of these narratives try to show that the "us" isn't inherently flawed, but that we're deliberately pushed in a "subversive" direction by an evil, all-powerful force. It's a comforting truth, in a way. You maintain the positive self-image while gaining a common enemy. Sure, you're mad at the other side for falling for the lie. But ultimately the common enemy is even worse. Edit: Changed the second paragraph to reflect the year he defected
- ravenstine 6y ago
  > Yuri Bezmenov was also a nobody who instantly became a darling of the American far-right. The interview you're referring to is by the Alex Jones-like conspiracy nut G. Edward Griffin. Bezmenov became "famous" by reinforcing every far-right fear of "communist indoctrination" in American society. You're engaging in weak thinking known as "guilt by association". Whatever merit the rest of your statements have, it's totally irrelevant whether the "far-right" likes Bezmenov or if the person who interviewed him was a "conspiracy theorist". It's weak because it says nothing about Bezmenov himself, and at worst it is an attempt to shut down any counter argument. (association to the "far-right" and "conspiracy theorist" are common tactics to shut down arguments)
  - 6y ago

yoloswagins 6y ago

I am reasonably certain that Stalin had Warren Bechtel, one of the builders of Hoover Dam, die on a visit to Russia. "Dad" Bechtel was a virulent anti-communist.