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> is fully recyclable Glass if fully recyclable and reusable.

alexpotato 6y ago
But is not biodegradable on shorter time scales. e.g. a glass bottle in a woodland setting could stay in that form for thousands of years. A paper bottle would last a few weeks at most.
- catalogia 6y ago
  Glass bottles in the ocean get chemical and mechanical weathering pretty quickly, being ground away to sand on the order of decades. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_glass) You can also simply put them through a crusher/pulverize two or three times to turn them back into sand. I'm not really sure intact glass is a big environmental problem though. Animals could get stuck in intact bottles or cut themselves on sharp glass, but otherwise I believe glass is nontoxic, generally quite inert, and as far as nature is concerned indistinguishable from other naturally occurring minerals (obsidian in particular comes to mind.)
- enkid 6y ago
  Is that really a big deal? Is that form actively harmful? After all, it's mostly melted sand. Seems like it would be no worse than having a rock to me, but I don't know enough to say that definitively.
  - Xophmeister 6y ago
    A shard of glass would be sharp (dangerous to animals that are unfamiliar with it) and could even focus sunlight to start a fire.
- jacknews 6y ago
  what does paper/cardboard biodegrade to?
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    Eventually, it degrades in the soil. Waxed products and tetra-packs do not, however. When I moved into my home in 2006, I found circa 1985 era milk cartons and juiceboxes buried in the garden. (i think they were used to start seeds) The milk carton was degrading, the juice box, not so much.
    - jacknews 6y ago
      it degrades to co2 wax, etc, remains underground, a bit like coal, or oil, long term.
mytailorisrich 6y ago
My understanding is that glass and plastics recycle much better than waxed paper. The issue with glass is that it requires a lot of energy to produce and recycle, and is heavy, which means more energy to transport it. Properly recycled plastics may in fact be the most environmentally friendly option ...
- leetcrew 6y ago
  there is an additional complication. while glass requires more energy to "recycle" than plastic, you actually get the original product back. when you recycle glass bottles, you can keep making new bottles from the same material indefinitely. what we do with plastic might be better described as "downcycling"; every cycle outputs lower quality plastic and eventually you end up with unusable material that needs to be disposed of.
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    That's absolutely fine depending on what disposal means and how the various cycles look like. What is not useful is to put a blanket 'bad' label on plastics. This is not a simple issue and it requires comprehensive studies on a case by case basis.
    - WorldMaker 6y ago
      Relatedly this came up in a recent discussion I had with someone about plastic straws. Metal straws are more dangerous (stories of impaling the rough of one's mouth, to worse "accidental lobotomies from underneath"), glass straws are inconvenient to carry without breakage and underperform in drinking situations where flexibility is handy. Plastic straws hit a very sweet spot of performance and function fit, the biggest problem of them is that their "cheap as free" ubiquity has created the mindset that they are disposable single use items. For the most part they are no less cleanable and reusable than what we are seeing of metal and glass straws, it's just the deep old psychological trick that they are cheap and disposable keeping them cheap and disposable.
Spooky23 6y ago
Environmental people will bikeshed you to death on glass. Common issues: - Manufacturing glass == high heat, heat == carbon. - Reusing glass bottles involve cleaning, and the impact of warm water and soap is significant. - Glass bottles are heavier than plastic. So delivering a bottle of coke in a glass bottle supposedly uses more resources than a plastic bottle. (Walmart used this to assert that Sam's Club foam cups were friendlier than cardboard a few years ago) Basically, unless you ride a bike to the ocean, collect saltwater with an unbleached paper straw, and desalinate it using a solar-powered device that weighs less than 5 pounds, you are a horrible person.
- unethical_ban 6y ago
  Manufacturing, you're spot on. Disposal/recycling? Glass is renewable. It's sand. It's rock. Crush it up, dump it in the ocean and make more. With solar powered furnaces and ultra-thin tolerances, I guess.
- joncp 6y ago
  > Basically, unless you ride a bike to the ocean ... and you'd better be burning plant-based calories buddy
greenshackle2 6y ago
Glass is more recyclable than paper. Paper is really only "downcyclable", each cycle shortens the average fiber length.

But is not biodegradable on shorter time scales. e.g. a glass bottle in a woodland setting could stay in that form for thousands of years. A paper bottle would last a few weeks at most.

catalogia 6y ago
Glass bottles in the ocean get chemical and mechanical weathering pretty quickly, being ground away to sand on the order of decades. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_glass) You can also simply put them through a crusher/pulverize two or three times to turn them back into sand. I'm not really sure intact glass is a big environmental problem though. Animals could get stuck in intact bottles or cut themselves on sharp glass, but otherwise I believe glass is nontoxic, generally quite inert, and as far as nature is concerned indistinguishable from other naturally occurring minerals (obsidian in particular comes to mind.)
enkid 6y ago
Is that really a big deal? Is that form actively harmful? After all, it's mostly melted sand. Seems like it would be no worse than having a rock to me, but I don't know enough to say that definitively.
- Xophmeister 6y ago
  A shard of glass would be sharp (dangerous to animals that are unfamiliar with it) and could even focus sunlight to start a fire.
jacknews 6y ago
what does paper/cardboard biodegrade to?
- Spooky23 6y ago
  Eventually, it degrades in the soil. Waxed products and tetra-packs do not, however. When I moved into my home in 2006, I found circa 1985 era milk cartons and juiceboxes buried in the garden. (i think they were used to start seeds) The milk carton was degrading, the juice box, not so much.
  - jacknews 6y ago
    it degrades to co2 wax, etc, remains underground, a bit like coal, or oil, long term.

mytailorisrich 6y ago

My understanding is that glass and plastics recycle much better than waxed paper. The issue with glass is that it requires a lot of energy to produce and recycle, and is heavy, which means more energy to transport it. Properly recycled plastics may in fact be the most environmentally friendly option ...

leetcrew 6y ago
there is an additional complication. while glass requires more energy to "recycle" than plastic, you actually get the original product back. when you recycle glass bottles, you can keep making new bottles from the same material indefinitely. what we do with plastic might be better described as "downcycling"; every cycle outputs lower quality plastic and eventually you end up with unusable material that needs to be disposed of.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  That's absolutely fine depending on what disposal means and how the various cycles look like. What is not useful is to put a blanket 'bad' label on plastics. This is not a simple issue and it requires comprehensive studies on a case by case basis.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    Relatedly this came up in a recent discussion I had with someone about plastic straws. Metal straws are more dangerous (stories of impaling the rough of one's mouth, to worse "accidental lobotomies from underneath"), glass straws are inconvenient to carry without breakage and underperform in drinking situations where flexibility is handy. Plastic straws hit a very sweet spot of performance and function fit, the biggest problem of them is that their "cheap as free" ubiquity has created the mindset that they are disposable single use items. For the most part they are no less cleanable and reusable than what we are seeing of metal and glass straws, it's just the deep old psychological trick that they are cheap and disposable keeping them cheap and disposable.

Spooky23 6y ago

Environmental people will bikeshed you to death on glass. Common issues: - Manufacturing glass == high heat, heat == carbon. - Reusing glass bottles involve cleaning, and the impact of warm water and soap is significant. - Glass bottles are heavier than plastic. So delivering a bottle of coke in a glass bottle supposedly uses more resources than a plastic bottle. (Walmart used this to assert that Sam's Club foam cups were friendlier than cardboard a few years ago) Basically, unless you ride a bike to the ocean, collect saltwater with an unbleached paper straw, and desalinate it using a solar-powered device that weighs less than 5 pounds, you are a horrible person.

unethical_ban 6y ago
Manufacturing, you're spot on. Disposal/recycling? Glass is renewable. It's sand. It's rock. Crush it up, dump it in the ocean and make more. With solar powered furnaces and ultra-thin tolerances, I guess.
joncp 6y ago
> Basically, unless you ride a bike to the ocean ... and you'd better be burning plant-based calories buddy

greenshackle2 6y ago

Glass is more recyclable than paper. Paper is really only "downcyclable", each cycle shortens the average fiber length.