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Hitman-for-hire darknet sites are all scams. This wired article explains how these offerings are all scams. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/kill-list-dark-web-

Hitman-for-hire darknet sites are all scams. This wired article explains how these offerings are all scams. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/kill-list-dark-web-hitmen https://www.wired.co.uk/article/kill-list-dark-web-hitmen

rezic 6y ago
That was a great read, thanks!
SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
If you are a real hitman it seems you have a steep marketing issue to operate on dark net. “First hit free” is a bad approach.
duxup 6y ago
It seems like an anonymous hitman system just doesn't work. For the hitman, it's much safer to just take the down payment / etc and not do anything. That's just way more cost effective / lower risk to do that over and over again. For the person hiring them... no reason to think the hitman won't do the logical thing and not do the hit / walk with the up front cash.... and probably limited no incentive to pay after the deed is done if in fact everyone is anonymous. Historically speaking hitmen seem to be tied to organizations who the hitman and the employer more or less can trust / provide some level of protection / regular work / other work or at least the promise of it. And generally the the professional hitmen eventually tend to be disposed of by the next hitman after their usefulness to their employer fades... A system where nobody trusts anyone would seem to only attract scammers and some random idiots. Hard to imagine it working out any other way.
- joan_kode 6y ago
  Dark web marketplaces are not exactly "a system where nobody trusts anyone". They are pseudonymous, as opposed to completely anonymous, and sellers absolutely build reputation and some degree of trust. Otherwise nothing would work - the problems you point out would prevent any business at all. It's theoretically possible for a hitman to build reputation in such an environment. However, it would have to be comparatively slow and high-stakes, which I suspect is the main problem and tips the scale towards scamming.
  - duxup 6y ago
    I think the flip side to the nobody trusts anyone is once you out yourself as a hitman with a good reputation ... I think you can assume any customers will be cops pretty dang fast.
    - neolog 6y ago
      That doesn't seem to happen for drug markets.
      - duxup 6y ago
        Seems to happen to the operators of dark web services... and then their users. Beyond that though a hitman seems to assume some level of proximity to the target that authorities could use. Mailing drugs much less so.
        nix23 6y ago
        NOT true watch or read 'the jackal' (the book is a bit different because it's against the french president not the US) And its partially a true story: https://www.insidehook.com/article/military/real-life-jackal-revealed-killing-de-gaulle-first-step https://www.insidehook.com/article/military/real-life-jackal...
        blaser-waffle 6y ago
        Aye. With hitmen there are bodies, a capital crime, and no statute of limitations. Drug laws are often much more lenient, not as far reaching, and some random guys Silk Road order is a drop in the bucket compared to the serious importing and production of said drugs. Plus you order your goods to the wrong address or use a fake name, and when the heat comes around you say "it wasn't me" and flush your drugs -- they're not going to chase you for months the way they might a murder case. Obviously exceptions for the guys ordering kilos of coke every quarter, but as long as you put a little bit of effort into CYA no one is going to kick down your door for $80 worth of Molly.
  - three_seagrass 6y ago
- the8472 6y ago
  Perhaps some multi-step smart contract that creates a prisoner's dilemma where both parties pre-commit some money. On completion of the contract if both sides submit a completion code, you get some of it back (to incentivize you to complete the transaction) and the larger part goes to the hitman (to incentivize him to do finish his job). If either side reneges the money gets burned or redistributed to random wallets.
  - mycall 6y ago
    Reminds me of ETH smart contracts.
  - duxup 6y ago
    Yeah I've seen some theoretical systems that always include some sort of escrow... but that just assumes we trust that escrow system... somehow. It's all turtles it seems ;)
    - SCHiM 6y ago
      The escrow can build up trust with high volume low amount transactions, i.e. your regular drug transactions. I think all dark markets to date had some escrow systems in place eventually.
  - bena 6y ago
    What about something something blockchain? Isn't that the hotness now? Blockchain it?
- antepodius 6y ago
  What about using a prediction market?
dementik 6y ago
Actually, not _all_ are scams. In Finland, last year, young man offered his hitman services on dark web and eventually murdered another. Trial started in the beginning of June 2020. Of course, he was not a professional hitman and outcome very scam'ish. https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11386629 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11386629
pc86 6y ago
Maybe I'm missing something just the linked article doesn't mention anything about hitmen for hire?
zelly 6y ago
The best darknet hit-for-hire idea I've seen is the one that uses a prediction market. You publicly bet $500k that Joe is not going to die in 1 week. Whoever takes the other side of that bet has an interest in making Joe die. (Assume the prediction market is completely decentralized and untraceable. Assume there is an accurate way to determine the outcomes of the events in a manner compatible with being untraceable and decentralized.)
- jhardy54 6y ago
  Assuming the prediction market isn't untraceable, would this be legal? If Joe dies and someone gets $500,000 richer I'm sure the police would be very interested to investigate the transaction, but would the bet itself actually violate any laws?
  - zelly 6y ago
    It would have to use some type of "untraceable" cryptocurrency like Monero because of that way to expose the hitman. Using traceable money (e.g. dollars in bank accounts or Bitcoin), the police can just plainly see the destination of the funds from the prediction market's wallet (which, if decentralized, must be known or, if centralized, could be discovered through espionage).
    - jhardy54 6y ago
      > Assuming the prediction market isn't untraceable, would this be legal? My question is whether it's actually illegal to take this bet, since it doesn't really prove that you're the hitman.
      - zelly 6y ago
        Sorry I missed that. If it were legal, I'd assume there'd be a law making it illegal within a few days.
      - Enginerrrd 6y ago
        The question is moot since if it wasn't, and you made such a market, it soon would be. Realistically, the FBI would find a way to get you for something even in the meantime.

rezic 6y ago

That was a great read, thanks!

SV_BubbleTime 6y ago

If you are a real hitman it seems you have a steep marketing issue to operate on dark net. “First hit free” is a bad approach.

duxup 6y ago

It seems like an anonymous hitman system just doesn't work. For the hitman, it's much safer to just take the down payment / etc and not do anything. That's just way more cost effective / lower risk to do that over and over again. For the person hiring them... no reason to think the hitman won't do the logical thing and not do the hit / walk with the up front cash.... and probably limited no incentive to pay after the deed is done if in fact everyone is anonymous. Historically speaking hitmen seem to be tied to organizations who the hitman and the employer more or less can trust / provide some level of protection / regular work / other work or at least the promise of it. And generally the the professional hitmen eventually tend to be disposed of by the next hitman after their usefulness to their employer fades... A system where nobody trusts anyone would seem to only attract scammers and some random idiots. Hard to imagine it working out any other way.

joan_kode 6y ago
Dark web marketplaces are not exactly "a system where nobody trusts anyone". They are pseudonymous, as opposed to completely anonymous, and sellers absolutely build reputation and some degree of trust. Otherwise nothing would work - the problems you point out would prevent any business at all. It's theoretically possible for a hitman to build reputation in such an environment. However, it would have to be comparatively slow and high-stakes, which I suspect is the main problem and tips the scale towards scamming.
- duxup 6y ago
  I think the flip side to the nobody trusts anyone is once you out yourself as a hitman with a good reputation ... I think you can assume any customers will be cops pretty dang fast.
  - neolog 6y ago
    That doesn't seem to happen for drug markets.
    - duxup 6y ago
      Seems to happen to the operators of dark web services... and then their users. Beyond that though a hitman seems to assume some level of proximity to the target that authorities could use. Mailing drugs much less so.
      - nix23 6y ago
        NOT true watch or read 'the jackal' (the book is a bit different because it's against the french president not the US) And its partially a true story: https://www.insidehook.com/article/military/real-life-jackal-revealed-killing-de-gaulle-first-step https://www.insidehook.com/article/military/real-life-jackal...
      - blaser-waffle 6y ago
        Aye. With hitmen there are bodies, a capital crime, and no statute of limitations. Drug laws are often much more lenient, not as far reaching, and some random guys Silk Road order is a drop in the bucket compared to the serious importing and production of said drugs. Plus you order your goods to the wrong address or use a fake name, and when the heat comes around you say "it wasn't me" and flush your drugs -- they're not going to chase you for months the way they might a murder case. Obviously exceptions for the guys ordering kilos of coke every quarter, but as long as you put a little bit of effort into CYA no one is going to kick down your door for $80 worth of Molly.
- three_seagrass 6y ago
the8472 6y ago
Perhaps some multi-step smart contract that creates a prisoner's dilemma where both parties pre-commit some money. On completion of the contract if both sides submit a completion code, you get some of it back (to incentivize you to complete the transaction) and the larger part goes to the hitman (to incentivize him to do finish his job). If either side reneges the money gets burned or redistributed to random wallets.
- mycall 6y ago
  Reminds me of ETH smart contracts.
- duxup 6y ago
  Yeah I've seen some theoretical systems that always include some sort of escrow... but that just assumes we trust that escrow system... somehow. It's all turtles it seems ;)
  - SCHiM 6y ago
    The escrow can build up trust with high volume low amount transactions, i.e. your regular drug transactions. I think all dark markets to date had some escrow systems in place eventually.
- bena 6y ago
  What about something something blockchain? Isn't that the hotness now? Blockchain it?
antepodius 6y ago
What about using a prediction market?

dementik 6y ago

Actually, not _all_ are scams. In Finland, last year, young man offered his hitman services on dark web and eventually murdered another. Trial started in the beginning of June 2020. Of course, he was not a professional hitman and outcome very scam'ish. https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11386629 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11386629

pc86 6y ago

Maybe I'm missing something just the linked article doesn't mention anything about hitmen for hire?

zelly 6y ago

The best darknet hit-for-hire idea I've seen is the one that uses a prediction market. You publicly bet $500k that Joe is not going to die in 1 week. Whoever takes the other side of that bet has an interest in making Joe die. (Assume the prediction market is completely decentralized and untraceable. Assume there is an accurate way to determine the outcomes of the events in a manner compatible with being untraceable and decentralized.)

jhardy54 6y ago
Assuming the prediction market isn't untraceable, would this be legal? If Joe dies and someone gets $500,000 richer I'm sure the police would be very interested to investigate the transaction, but would the bet itself actually violate any laws?
- zelly 6y ago
  It would have to use some type of "untraceable" cryptocurrency like Monero because of that way to expose the hitman. Using traceable money (e.g. dollars in bank accounts or Bitcoin), the police can just plainly see the destination of the funds from the prediction market's wallet (which, if decentralized, must be known or, if centralized, could be discovered through espionage).
  - jhardy54 6y ago
    > Assuming the prediction market isn't untraceable, would this be legal? My question is whether it's actually illegal to take this bet, since it doesn't really prove that you're the hitman.
    - zelly 6y ago
      Sorry I missed that. If it were legal, I'd assume there'd be a law making it illegal within a few days.
    - Enginerrrd 6y ago
      The question is moot since if it wasn't, and you made such a market, it soon would be. Realistically, the FBI would find a way to get you for something even in the meantime.