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I have no idea how these prices were calculated, but I can tell you that the prices for the credits cards are quite correct (at least approximately). $20 for a

I have no idea how these prices were calculated, but I can tell you that the prices for the credits cards are quite correct (at least approximately). $20 for a credit card with $5k limit is not worth $5k - you've got to actually get value from it, usually by trying to buy goods or bitcoin with it, which is very risky, time consuming, requires a lot of skill and effort, and you won't get the full $5k from it. The people selling them are presumably "hackers" looking to make money off of stolen PII/FI.

lifeformed 6y ago
Couldn't you use card credentials to get a cash advance at an ATM? I am assuming a chip-less card's magstripe just has the credentials on it, so it should be easy to copy? I guess the banks fraud systems would catch an unusual withdraw.
- notahacker 6y ago
  A lot of cards are going to have low limits or blocks on cash advances. Withdrawals from overseas are particularly likely to fail. And the card owner might realise his credentials have been stolen by the time the card hits the market .
- xondono 6y ago
  - You could, but you'd be exposing yourself, so you'll want to send a mule in your place. - That adds extra risk, so you might have to pay someone to scare that mule into doing their part. - You'll want to get that laundered somehow, so you'll want to arrange some nice path that leaves no trail to you, maybe through Western Union? And so the costs keep increasing and your margin goes down. The key of the game is to setup this kind of stuff at scale. Then it doesn't really matter if you're making only 60$ from each card, as long as it covers the cost.
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
  Depends on the bank but most in the US now have additional security mechanisms for non chip transactions. I ran into it when the chip on my card broke. The bank declines the initial ATM transaction, then sends me an SMS asking to confirm it's me and retry the transaction.
gear54rus 6y ago
What is risky or requires skill about buying bitcoin with it?
- bencoder 6y ago
  It's mostly impossible - try buying bitcoin with a card that isn't in your name and see if you can manage it
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    Try buying Bitcoin even with a card that is in your name. I've never tried it, but I'm almost certain my bank would block the transaction -- either for authorization by SMS (if the Bitcoin-selling site supports this), or by denying it until I phone the bank myself. I think this would be normal for most European cards. I was surprised not to see a separate price for EMV / no-EMV cards in the table.

lifeformed 6y ago

Couldn't you use card credentials to get a cash advance at an ATM? I am assuming a chip-less card's magstripe just has the credentials on it, so it should be easy to copy? I guess the banks fraud systems would catch an unusual withdraw.

notahacker 6y ago
A lot of cards are going to have low limits or blocks on cash advances. Withdrawals from overseas are particularly likely to fail. And the card owner might realise his credentials have been stolen by the time the card hits the market .
xondono 6y ago
- You could, but you'd be exposing yourself, so you'll want to send a mule in your place. - That adds extra risk, so you might have to pay someone to scare that mule into doing their part. - You'll want to get that laundered somehow, so you'll want to arrange some nice path that leaves no trail to you, maybe through Western Union? And so the costs keep increasing and your margin goes down. The key of the game is to setup this kind of stuff at scale. Then it doesn't really matter if you're making only 60$ from each card, as long as it covers the cost.
jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
Depends on the bank but most in the US now have additional security mechanisms for non chip transactions. I ran into it when the chip on my card broke. The bank declines the initial ATM transaction, then sends me an SMS asking to confirm it's me and retry the transaction.

gear54rus 6y ago

What is risky or requires skill about buying bitcoin with it?

bencoder 6y ago
It's mostly impossible - try buying bitcoin with a card that isn't in your name and see if you can manage it
- Symbiote 6y ago
  Try buying Bitcoin even with a card that is in your name. I've never tried it, but I'm almost certain my bank would block the transaction -- either for authorization by SMS (if the Bitcoin-selling site supports this), or by denying it until I phone the bank myself. I think this would be normal for most European cards. I was surprised not to see a separate price for EMV / no-EMV cards in the table.