6 ms·

the person is connected with both the parties. so may be opposition does not dare to mention him. but i personally feel he is lesser evil, especially if you loo

the person is connected with both the parties. so may be opposition does not dare to mention him. but i personally feel he is lesser evil, especially if you look at the penetration Chinese products and venture money have made in India.

kranner 6y ago
How is Chinese venture money more evil than Ambani owning everything?
- onetimemanytime 6y ago
  >>How is Chinese venture money more evil than Ambani owning everything? Ambani can be dealt with a stroke of a pen when the goverment wants to. China on the other hand...
  - kranner 6y ago
    It's not China, it is Chinese VC money. And no, I don't see that the Government can deal with Ambani so easily, or even antagonise him with impunity. Winning elections cost money and with the new electoral bonds, Ambani can easily fund the opposition in the next elections.
    - onetimemanytime 6y ago
      >>It's not China, it is Chinese VC money. No difference in China. Do what is good for the fatherland or your fiances, you personally and your family will suffer. >>I don't see that the Government can deal with Ambani so easily, or even antagonise him with impunity. So like many he's wayyy to powerful to deal with. But at least he is a local, not jeopardizing India's geopolitics. Just as he can control politicians, they can control him, if/when they want to. They know what he did to become so powerful and can send 500 police officers to his offices to search for evidence if/when...
      - kranner 6y ago
        I think there's a qualitative difference in somebody merely very rich and a person like Ambani who is in the top 10 wealthiest people in the world. He is not quite a 'local' that the Government can just CBI-raid into intimidation like e.g. Prannoy Roy.
        tlear 6y ago
        See Russia as to how to deal with people like that. It is nothing that a raid or accident can’t fix. He is also not murdering Indian soldiers on the border which is a bonus. Same men that ordered that escalation are investing PRC money. If they are not same they share the same boss.
        kranner 6y ago
        > Same men that ordered that escalation are investing PRC money. If they are not same they share the same boss. This is speculation, unless you have sources in which case please share them. The most detailed and seemingly authentic source [1] I have seen about the Galwan brawl (that resulted in the deaths of 20 Indian soldiers and an undisclosed number of Chinese soldiers) suggests the escalation was not planned but the accidental result of a chain of events starting from a freshly deployed Chinese trooper pushing the Indian party's Commanding Officer. [1] https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/3-separate-brawls-outsider-chinese-troops-more-most-detailed-account-of-the-brutal-june-15-galwan-battle-1691185-2020-06-21 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/3-separate-brawls-outs...
        legolas2412 6y ago
        Are you really interested in debating the topic, or just perpetual muddying the waters? The question is if Chinese ownership of Indian industries will be bad, and the answer is an obvious yes. As for your claim in this case, it wasn't just a freshly deployed Chinese trooper, but the whole platoon, who had built structures and arranged weapons in violation of prior agreement.
        tlear 6y ago
    - enitihas 6y ago
      Yeah, the Chinese government is far more involved with it's companies than India with any of it's non nationalized companies. China got Jack Ma to spinoff Alipay from Alibaba, screwing the other shareholders badly. I don't think there is anyy big company in China without CCP members high up in the ranks. Ambani on the other hand, however powerful he may be, is certainly not a bigger threat than China. Companies being Ambani owned, while worse than a competitive market, is still much better than being Tencent owned.
      - kranner 6y ago
        > Companies being Ambani owned, while worse than a competitive market, is still much better than being Tencent owned. But better how, exactly?
        enitihas 6y ago
        Much more easier to control than China. Ambani doesn't have an "Ambani liberation army" backing him up. Think of it this way, why did China spin off Ant Financial out of Alibaba? Had it been in hands of foreign investors, it would be a huge issue later on if it became big. And if it became big, it would be much harder to spin it off that way. You can't spin off 100 billions and not expect strong retaliation from the countries of the foreign investors. It was much more easier for them to control Jack Ma, and ensure he never becomes too powerful. While India is a democracy unlike China, and the government can't just get people to disappear with nobody questioning, even without such totalitarian tools, a well functioning sovereign government is always more powerful than any of it's richest people.
        kranner 6y ago
        OK, thanks for explaining your point. I still think you're conflating Tencent with China as much as you're overestimating how well-functioning the Indian government is. In my view it is grossly incompetent beyond spreading propaganda, horse-trading MPs and MLAs to swing elections, and indeed disappearing people and killing them extra-judiciously in fake encounters. Ambani capturing everything would result in the complete demise of the dregs of Indian democracy as he will remain king-maker as long as he lives IMHO.
  - dragonelite 6y ago
    Chinese investment can be handled under the banner of "National security", seems to work fine here in the West.
    - kranner 6y ago
      It will result in massive capital flight from other foreign investors.
- sbmthakur 6y ago
  Chinese venture firms are subject to PRC's National Intelligence Law, which requires all Chinese organisations to support, co-operate with and collaborate in national intelligence work. I don't think Ambani has such an obligation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law
  - kranner 6y ago
    That doesn’t address why Chinese money is less desirable than Ambani’s money.
    - sbmthakur 6y ago
      Their influence in India is directly proportional to the money they put in the Indian economy, which basically means the influence exercised by the Chinese government. The lesser the Chinese influence, the better it is considering the current state of India-China relations. Ambani's money is definitely not fueling a known Indian adversary.
      - kranner 6y ago
        You have a fair point regarding not fueling a known adversary. I'm not sure about the influence part, as they have very far from a controlling share in the Indian investments I'm aware of. There is HDFC Bank, but their the Chinese share doesn't exceed 2%. Dubai I think has a larger share than the Chinese.

kranner 6y ago

How is Chinese venture money more evil than Ambani owning everything?

onetimemanytime 6y ago
>>How is Chinese venture money more evil than Ambani owning everything? Ambani can be dealt with a stroke of a pen when the goverment wants to. China on the other hand...
- kranner 6y ago
  It's not China, it is Chinese VC money. And no, I don't see that the Government can deal with Ambani so easily, or even antagonise him with impunity. Winning elections cost money and with the new electoral bonds, Ambani can easily fund the opposition in the next elections.
  - onetimemanytime 6y ago
    >>It's not China, it is Chinese VC money. No difference in China. Do what is good for the fatherland or your fiances, you personally and your family will suffer. >>I don't see that the Government can deal with Ambani so easily, or even antagonise him with impunity. So like many he's wayyy to powerful to deal with. But at least he is a local, not jeopardizing India's geopolitics. Just as he can control politicians, they can control him, if/when they want to. They know what he did to become so powerful and can send 500 police officers to his offices to search for evidence if/when...
    - kranner 6y ago
      I think there's a qualitative difference in somebody merely very rich and a person like Ambani who is in the top 10 wealthiest people in the world. He is not quite a 'local' that the Government can just CBI-raid into intimidation like e.g. Prannoy Roy.
      - tlear 6y ago
        See Russia as to how to deal with people like that. It is nothing that a raid or accident can’t fix. He is also not murdering Indian soldiers on the border which is a bonus. Same men that ordered that escalation are investing PRC money. If they are not same they share the same boss.
        kranner 6y ago
        > Same men that ordered that escalation are investing PRC money. If they are not same they share the same boss. This is speculation, unless you have sources in which case please share them. The most detailed and seemingly authentic source [1] I have seen about the Galwan brawl (that resulted in the deaths of 20 Indian soldiers and an undisclosed number of Chinese soldiers) suggests the escalation was not planned but the accidental result of a chain of events starting from a freshly deployed Chinese trooper pushing the Indian party's Commanding Officer. [1] https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/3-separate-brawls-outsider-chinese-troops-more-most-detailed-account-of-the-brutal-june-15-galwan-battle-1691185-2020-06-21 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/3-separate-brawls-outs...
        legolas2412 6y ago
        Are you really interested in debating the topic, or just perpetual muddying the waters? The question is if Chinese ownership of Indian industries will be bad, and the answer is an obvious yes. As for your claim in this case, it wasn't just a freshly deployed Chinese trooper, but the whole platoon, who had built structures and arranged weapons in violation of prior agreement.
        tlear 6y ago
  - enitihas 6y ago
    Yeah, the Chinese government is far more involved with it's companies than India with any of it's non nationalized companies. China got Jack Ma to spinoff Alipay from Alibaba, screwing the other shareholders badly. I don't think there is anyy big company in China without CCP members high up in the ranks. Ambani on the other hand, however powerful he may be, is certainly not a bigger threat than China. Companies being Ambani owned, while worse than a competitive market, is still much better than being Tencent owned.
    - kranner 6y ago
      > Companies being Ambani owned, while worse than a competitive market, is still much better than being Tencent owned. But better how, exactly?
      - enitihas 6y ago
        Much more easier to control than China. Ambani doesn't have an "Ambani liberation army" backing him up. Think of it this way, why did China spin off Ant Financial out of Alibaba? Had it been in hands of foreign investors, it would be a huge issue later on if it became big. And if it became big, it would be much harder to spin it off that way. You can't spin off 100 billions and not expect strong retaliation from the countries of the foreign investors. It was much more easier for them to control Jack Ma, and ensure he never becomes too powerful. While India is a democracy unlike China, and the government can't just get people to disappear with nobody questioning, even without such totalitarian tools, a well functioning sovereign government is always more powerful than any of it's richest people.
        kranner 6y ago
        OK, thanks for explaining your point. I still think you're conflating Tencent with China as much as you're overestimating how well-functioning the Indian government is. In my view it is grossly incompetent beyond spreading propaganda, horse-trading MPs and MLAs to swing elections, and indeed disappearing people and killing them extra-judiciously in fake encounters. Ambani capturing everything would result in the complete demise of the dregs of Indian democracy as he will remain king-maker as long as he lives IMHO.
- dragonelite 6y ago
  Chinese investment can be handled under the banner of "National security", seems to work fine here in the West.
  - kranner 6y ago
    It will result in massive capital flight from other foreign investors.
sbmthakur 6y ago
Chinese venture firms are subject to PRC's National Intelligence Law, which requires all Chinese organisations to support, co-operate with and collaborate in national intelligence work. I don't think Ambani has such an obligation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Intelligence_Law
- kranner 6y ago
  That doesn’t address why Chinese money is less desirable than Ambani’s money.
  - sbmthakur 6y ago
    Their influence in India is directly proportional to the money they put in the Indian economy, which basically means the influence exercised by the Chinese government. The lesser the Chinese influence, the better it is considering the current state of India-China relations. Ambani's money is definitely not fueling a known Indian adversary.
    - kranner 6y ago
      You have a fair point regarding not fueling a known adversary. I'm not sure about the influence part, as they have very far from a controlling share in the Indian investments I'm aware of. There is HDFC Bank, but their the Chinese share doesn't exceed 2%. Dubai I think has a larger share than the Chinese.