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Google has been funneling around 20 billion dollars yearly through Bermuda to evade taxes using the infamous 'irish double sandwich'. Pressure from the US and

Google has been funneling around 20 billion dollars yearly through Bermuda to evade taxes using the infamous 'irish double sandwich'. Pressure from the US and EU is finally forcing Ireland to change their laws. Google is in a situation when they have money that they need to figure out a plan for since they can't do as much tax evasion as they previously were permitted to. https://www.caymancompass.com/2020/01/02/google-to-end-bermuda-tax-scheme/ https://www.caymancompass.com/2020/01/02/google-to-end-bermu...

flippedbit 6y ago
Tax minimization is a form of tax avoidance rather than tax evasion (Not saying it’s good, rather just that google weren’t breaking any laws).
- TLightful 6y ago
  "My dear wife, please believe me ... we weren't having a sexual affair, I was just getting a BJ"
  - onetimemanytime 6y ago
    If you want the case that you chose to be similar to Google's tax maneuvers, that specific sexual act then would not forbidden in the contract. If what Goog is doing was forbidden, Google would be sued by DOJ in a heartbeat.
    - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
      It was doing something forbidden and they were charged for it https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/technology/google-italy-tax.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/technology/google-italy-t... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-tech-google-tax/google-to-pay-1-billion-in-france-to-settle-fiscal-fraud-probe-idUSKCN1VX1SM https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-tech-google-tax/go...
- poiuytrewqa 6y ago
  There's no such a tax avoidance rule that is allowed and tax evasion is not. Also avoid and evade are similar term. Avoid > keep away from or stop oneself from doing Evade > escape or avoid (someone or something), especially by guile or trickery. This is the reason why many US tech companies got fined in Europe (Apple and Google are one of them) P.S. can someone explain why I get down votes for something factual? This forum is ridiculous at times
  - davidrm 6y ago
    sole definitions of avoid and evade are completely irrelevant, "tax avoidance" and "tax evasions" are well understood syntagms, former meaning utilizing any legal means in order to reduce the amount of taxes paid. simply put, tax avoidance is good accounting. tax evasion is illegal and is an action in which you're directly breaking a law. what tech companies were doing in europe was utilizing every possible loophole in order to reduce the amount of taxes paid. of course, that angered sovereign nations which (rightly) felt cheated and they acted by applying pressures to ireland and others. some (france) even fined some of the companies, those fines were most likely in a grey area, but tech firms knew very well what they were doing, understood the motivations behind those fines and generally concluded that it's a bad idea angering a nation in whose market you're operating. realpolitik.
    - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
      I posted link below as reply to another comment. They were evading taxes and was charged in Italy and France and even on Ireland. And no, it was not technically legal because many European countries do not distinguish between avoidance and evasion. There's no such a thing and is evasion (no matter how smartly you do that). https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/31/21044662/google-end-tax-loophole-double-irish-dutch-sandwich-2020 https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/31/21044662/google-end-tax-...
  - wenc 6y ago
    > Also avoid and evade are similar term. > P.S. can someone explain why I get down votes for something factual? This forum is ridiculous at times "Tax avoidance" and "tax evasion" are technical terms in accounting with very specific definitions and entailments, and the difference isn't just in the English words. Most accounting textbooks and courses cover this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion Even in Europe, this technical difference is recognized, but with one catch: the EU has enacted a counter-avoidance directive (ATAD, Jan 2019) - evasion is always illegal. This is not the case in most places around the world. Infographic: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/20160530STO29669/corporate-taxation-the-fight-against-tax-avoidance https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/201... Fiscal vocabulary: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/20150529STO61068/tax-avoidance-vs-tax-evasion-fiscal-vocabulary-made-easy https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/201... Finally, the HN guidelines provide good tips on how comment productively. (see the In Comments section) This helps us learn from each other's experiences. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
OJFord 6y ago
No tax evasion is ever permitted, by definition. (Tax owed and not paid.) Finding ways to reduce tax liability (rational) is called tax avoidance. (Tax not owed, and obviously not paid.)
- Jweb_Guru 6y ago
  The idea that corporations can avoid paying taxes anywhere and this is just "good accounting" is stupid on the face of it, regardless of the terminology used.
  - xhkkffbf 6y ago
    The idea that governments can write arbitrarily complicated regulations and this is just "good government" or "moral duty to pay and pay" is stupid on the face of it, regardless of the terminology used. The so-called loopholes were put there for a reason to benefit someone. If another corporation comes along to take advantage of them in a different way, well, that's just how laws work. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    And I suppose you voluntarily pay more tax than you need to?
    - izacus 6y ago
      "He" is not a for-profit corporation, but a human person. Corporations aren't people no matter how much dollars go into PR efforts to tell people otherwise. As such, them not paying their part to the society is damaging no matter how many personal appeals you do. Please stop humanizing corporations to make them get away with not paying their part.
      - freyr 6y ago
        It seems like the point is that we’d be naive to expect a corporation, presumably governed by rational actors working to maximize profits, to pay more taxes than the minimum.
ckdarby 6y ago
There are plenty of other ways than Ireland. Much easier way with Americans would be to use their own territory, Puerto Rico.

flippedbit 6y ago

Tax minimization is a form of tax avoidance rather than tax evasion (Not saying it’s good, rather just that google weren’t breaking any laws).

TLightful 6y ago
"My dear wife, please believe me ... we weren't having a sexual affair, I was just getting a BJ"
- onetimemanytime 6y ago
  If you want the case that you chose to be similar to Google's tax maneuvers, that specific sexual act then would not forbidden in the contract. If what Goog is doing was forbidden, Google would be sued by DOJ in a heartbeat.
  - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
    It was doing something forbidden and they were charged for it https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/technology/google-italy-tax.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/technology/google-italy-t... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-tech-google-tax/google-to-pay-1-billion-in-france-to-settle-fiscal-fraud-probe-idUSKCN1VX1SM https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-tech-google-tax/go...
poiuytrewqa 6y ago
There's no such a tax avoidance rule that is allowed and tax evasion is not. Also avoid and evade are similar term. Avoid > keep away from or stop oneself from doing Evade > escape or avoid (someone or something), especially by guile or trickery. This is the reason why many US tech companies got fined in Europe (Apple and Google are one of them) P.S. can someone explain why I get down votes for something factual? This forum is ridiculous at times
- davidrm 6y ago
  sole definitions of avoid and evade are completely irrelevant, "tax avoidance" and "tax evasions" are well understood syntagms, former meaning utilizing any legal means in order to reduce the amount of taxes paid. simply put, tax avoidance is good accounting. tax evasion is illegal and is an action in which you're directly breaking a law. what tech companies were doing in europe was utilizing every possible loophole in order to reduce the amount of taxes paid. of course, that angered sovereign nations which (rightly) felt cheated and they acted by applying pressures to ireland and others. some (france) even fined some of the companies, those fines were most likely in a grey area, but tech firms knew very well what they were doing, understood the motivations behind those fines and generally concluded that it's a bad idea angering a nation in whose market you're operating. realpolitik.
  - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
    I posted link below as reply to another comment. They were evading taxes and was charged in Italy and France and even on Ireland. And no, it was not technically legal because many European countries do not distinguish between avoidance and evasion. There's no such a thing and is evasion (no matter how smartly you do that). https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/31/21044662/google-end-tax-loophole-double-irish-dutch-sandwich-2020 https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/31/21044662/google-end-tax-...
- wenc 6y ago
  > Also avoid and evade are similar term. > P.S. can someone explain why I get down votes for something factual? This forum is ridiculous at times "Tax avoidance" and "tax evasion" are technical terms in accounting with very specific definitions and entailments, and the difference isn't just in the English words. Most accounting textbooks and courses cover this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion Even in Europe, this technical difference is recognized, but with one catch: the EU has enacted a counter-avoidance directive (ATAD, Jan 2019) - evasion is always illegal. This is not the case in most places around the world. Infographic: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/20160530STO29669/corporate-taxation-the-fight-against-tax-avoidance https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/201... Fiscal vocabulary: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/20150529STO61068/tax-avoidance-vs-tax-evasion-fiscal-vocabulary-made-easy https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/201... Finally, the HN guidelines provide good tips on how comment productively. (see the In Comments section) This helps us learn from each other's experiences. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

OJFord 6y ago

No tax evasion is ever permitted, by definition. (Tax owed and not paid.) Finding ways to reduce tax liability (rational) is called tax avoidance. (Tax not owed, and obviously not paid.)

Jweb_Guru 6y ago
The idea that corporations can avoid paying taxes anywhere and this is just "good accounting" is stupid on the face of it, regardless of the terminology used.
- xhkkffbf 6y ago
  The idea that governments can write arbitrarily complicated regulations and this is just "good government" or "moral duty to pay and pay" is stupid on the face of it, regardless of the terminology used. The so-called loopholes were put there for a reason to benefit someone. If another corporation comes along to take advantage of them in a different way, well, that's just how laws work. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
- OJFord 6y ago
  And I suppose you voluntarily pay more tax than you need to?
  - izacus 6y ago
    "He" is not a for-profit corporation, but a human person. Corporations aren't people no matter how much dollars go into PR efforts to tell people otherwise. As such, them not paying their part to the society is damaging no matter how many personal appeals you do. Please stop humanizing corporations to make them get away with not paying their part.
    - freyr 6y ago
      It seems like the point is that we’d be naive to expect a corporation, presumably governed by rational actors working to maximize profits, to pay more taxes than the minimum.

ckdarby 6y ago

There are plenty of other ways than Ireland. Much easier way with Americans would be to use their own territory, Puerto Rico.