4 ms·

Renaming things does nothing to help anyone. Just further reinforces the idea that we need to tiptoe around certain demographics, propagating an isolating us-an

Renaming things does nothing to help anyone. Just further reinforces the idea that we need to tiptoe around certain demographics, propagating an isolating us-and-them mentality.

ryanobjc 6y ago
If language is so unimportant, then it doesn't matter if things are renamed, right? But language DOES matter, and it DOES help people. It's a bit more abstract and decoupled, but shit, you're supposed to be a coder (you ARE on a programming forum), so I'm sure you can handle adding 1 and 1 and getting to 2.
- concordDance 6y ago
  I don't think anything you've said addresses anything I've said...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    You can lead a horse to water ... Then address what I said: Do you deny the evidence I just posted about there being more slavery today than ever before in history? What is your evidence that "Slavery was long gone and finished when master/slave began being used in computer science"?
DonHopkins 6y ago
So you're against renaming the Redskins? Explain why. Exactly how does that take away your freedom and cramp your lifestyle? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_contr... https://www.mediaite.com/sports/breaking-washington-redskins-expected-to-announce-retirement-of-team-name-on-monday/ https://www.mediaite.com/sports/breaking-washington-redskins... >BREAKING: Washington Redskins Expected to Announce Retirement of Team Name on Monday
altacc 6y ago
I think/hope you wrote "tiptoe around" when you meant "respecting the opinions". The problem is the us and them mentality exists, is very prevalent but basically invisible to or ignored by those on one side of the divide. Addressing issue already present isn't significantly furthering the divide, it's making people aware of what's already there. All the people saying "look how divided we are now!" fail to realise this has always been the way.
- polishdude20 6y ago
  Sorry, how is NOT using the terms master and slave helping actual slaves? I used to be bullied in school when I was young. I'm sure if people removed the term nerd and bully from some software projects I'd be much better off. Thank god for the word police. In what context can we use the terms master and slave? The term slave means to be controlled by another entity in its most basic definition. Just because there are loads of people who are slaves in the world doesn't make that term less accurate for its other uses.
  - altacc 6y ago
    I’ve never seen the words nerd or bully in code or software architecture, so that seems to be a spurious example. Businesses already tend not to use sensitive words, especially publicly. This is just adding to that list. For example, whilst you can kill a process we don’t use the word murder. Same for lots of other negatively emotional words. People do get hung up on naming & terminology. But as has been mentioned elsewhere, master/slave is often chosen through convention when other names would be clearer. We have a whitelist application at work that is actually an event routing gateway. If we renamed it it’d be easier to explain. To me it seems an easy task to not use master/slave and white/black when I’m naming things, not something worth arguing about, especially if there’s a chance it removes some negativity for some people. I’m happy to spend a few minutes helping someone with a chore and I see this as the same low level of effort and impact.
    - polishdude20 6y ago
      I understand the need to change the words if a different word is clearer. But the intent behind this particular case is more of a matter of bowing to the outrage culture rather than for usefulness purposes.

Renaming things does nothing to help anyone. Just further reinforces the idea that we need to tiptoe around certain demographics, propagating an isolating us-and-them mentality.

ryanobjc 6y ago

If language is so unimportant, then it doesn't matter if things are renamed, right? But language DOES matter, and it DOES help people. It's a bit more abstract and decoupled, but shit, you're supposed to be a coder (you ARE on a programming forum), so I'm sure you can handle adding 1 and 1 and getting to 2.

concordDance 6y ago
I don't think anything you've said addresses anything I've said...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  You can lead a horse to water ... Then address what I said: Do you deny the evidence I just posted about there being more slavery today than ever before in history? What is your evidence that "Slavery was long gone and finished when master/slave began being used in computer science"?

DonHopkins 6y ago

So you're against renaming the Redskins? Explain why. Exactly how does that take away your freedom and cramp your lifestyle? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_contr... https://www.mediaite.com/sports/breaking-washington-redskins-expected-to-announce-retirement-of-team-name-on-monday/ https://www.mediaite.com/sports/breaking-washington-redskins... >BREAKING: Washington Redskins Expected to Announce Retirement of Team Name on Monday

altacc 6y ago

I think/hope you wrote "tiptoe around" when you meant "respecting the opinions". The problem is the us and them mentality exists, is very prevalent but basically invisible to or ignored by those on one side of the divide. Addressing issue already present isn't significantly furthering the divide, it's making people aware of what's already there. All the people saying "look how divided we are now!" fail to realise this has always been the way.

polishdude20 6y ago
Sorry, how is NOT using the terms master and slave helping actual slaves? I used to be bullied in school when I was young. I'm sure if people removed the term nerd and bully from some software projects I'd be much better off. Thank god for the word police. In what context can we use the terms master and slave? The term slave means to be controlled by another entity in its most basic definition. Just because there are loads of people who are slaves in the world doesn't make that term less accurate for its other uses.
- altacc 6y ago
  I’ve never seen the words nerd or bully in code or software architecture, so that seems to be a spurious example. Businesses already tend not to use sensitive words, especially publicly. This is just adding to that list. For example, whilst you can kill a process we don’t use the word murder. Same for lots of other negatively emotional words. People do get hung up on naming & terminology. But as has been mentioned elsewhere, master/slave is often chosen through convention when other names would be clearer. We have a whitelist application at work that is actually an event routing gateway. If we renamed it it’d be easier to explain. To me it seems an easy task to not use master/slave and white/black when I’m naming things, not something worth arguing about, especially if there’s a chance it removes some negativity for some people. I’m happy to spend a few minutes helping someone with a chore and I see this as the same low level of effort and impact.
  - polishdude20 6y ago
    I understand the need to change the words if a different word is clearer. But the intent behind this particular case is more of a matter of bowing to the outrage culture rather than for usefulness purposes.