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Visited June 29 for a number of hours, visited protests at the police line after it was dismantled approx. Jul 1-4. The area proper on 29 was generally enjoyab

Visited June 29 for a number of hours, visited protests at the police line after it was dismantled approx. Jul 1-4. The area proper on 29 was generally enjoyable to be around. Observed lots of drifter types, no visible violence, some good musical performances, nice community gardens, free food tent. Saw very little public drinking, some weed, lots of tobacco (mainly self-rolling, which I thought was interesting). A few circles of older folks smoking weed in circles out front their tents and hammocks on the outskirts of the habitation. The protests at the police line were very disheartening. The militarization of police was of course frightening (not for my own life so much as the state of the nation). The protesters themselves had a fair amount of infighting, some of them seemed unstable (these ones were often the ones with guns). Overall I found the CHOP area pleasant to be around, however the fact that CHOP armed guards killed more black teens in that ~2 week period than SPD in the past 6 months made me question if it was possible to logically consistently support both CHOP and BLM -- it's concerning there hasn't been more coverage of the disconnect there.

Thorentis 6y ago
> however the fact that CHOP armed guards killed more black teens in that ~2 week period than SPD in the past 6 months made me question if it was possible to logically consistently support both CHOP and BLM Being able to hold conflicting beliefs simultaneously is the hallmark of a failed political ideology.
- newacct583 6y ago
  What exactly led you to believe that the anarcholeftists who set up CHOP and the racial justice folks who started Black Lives Matter seven years earlier subscribe to the same "political ideology"? This is like arguing that technolibertarian atheists and born again evangelicals can't agree on God, therefore conservatism is a failed ideology. For the record: put me in the "police are needed to deter obvious crime and violence" camp AND the "we do WAY too much policing of things other than immediate criminal behavior" group. How's that for failed?
  - Thorentis 6y ago
    > For the record: put me in the "police are needed to deter obvious crime and violence" camp AND the "we do WAY too much policing of things other than immediate criminal behavior" group. How's that for failed? Well then you wouldn't fall into any political ideology I was being critical of. Both your views are moderated by some common sense. Abolishing the police force is not a moderate view (and yet is what is being called for).
    - newacct583 6y ago
      Almost no one who shouts "defund the police" literally means they want no law enforcement. That is absolutely not "what is being called for" in any meaningful sense. And if you bothered to look for a mission statement or explanation from these people from any source but conservative media, you would know that.
      - Thorentis 6y ago
        > from any source but conservative media I didn't realise that wanting a police force automatically made you a conservative? Wasn't your main point that the left still want law enforcement?
      - neonate 6y ago
        That's untrue, there is an active debate about it on the left, and the people who originated the idea insist that abolition is exactly what they meant and still mean. https://twitter.com/jduffyrice/status/1270380991178321921 https://twitter.com/jduffyrice/status/1270380991178321921 https://www.mpd150.com/what-are-we-talking-about-when-we-talk-about-a-police-free-future/ https://www.mpd150.com/what-are-we-talking-about-when-we-tal...
        newacct583 6y ago
        Link me one significant policymaker, pundit, protest movement head or thought leader who "insists" on "abolition". Hell, I'll even take a name brand blogger. People say crazy shit somewhere, I'm sure. But even the Chapo folks aren't calling for this in the way you mean.

Thorentis 6y ago

> however the fact that CHOP armed guards killed more black teens in that ~2 week period than SPD in the past 6 months made me question if it was possible to logically consistently support both CHOP and BLM Being able to hold conflicting beliefs simultaneously is the hallmark of a failed political ideology.

newacct583 6y ago
What exactly led you to believe that the anarcholeftists who set up CHOP and the racial justice folks who started Black Lives Matter seven years earlier subscribe to the same "political ideology"? This is like arguing that technolibertarian atheists and born again evangelicals can't agree on God, therefore conservatism is a failed ideology. For the record: put me in the "police are needed to deter obvious crime and violence" camp AND the "we do WAY too much policing of things other than immediate criminal behavior" group. How's that for failed?
- Thorentis 6y ago
  > For the record: put me in the "police are needed to deter obvious crime and violence" camp AND the "we do WAY too much policing of things other than immediate criminal behavior" group. How's that for failed? Well then you wouldn't fall into any political ideology I was being critical of. Both your views are moderated by some common sense. Abolishing the police force is not a moderate view (and yet is what is being called for).
  - newacct583 6y ago
    Almost no one who shouts "defund the police" literally means they want no law enforcement. That is absolutely not "what is being called for" in any meaningful sense. And if you bothered to look for a mission statement or explanation from these people from any source but conservative media, you would know that.
    - Thorentis 6y ago
      > from any source but conservative media I didn't realise that wanting a police force automatically made you a conservative? Wasn't your main point that the left still want law enforcement?
    - neonate 6y ago
      That's untrue, there is an active debate about it on the left, and the people who originated the idea insist that abolition is exactly what they meant and still mean. https://twitter.com/jduffyrice/status/1270380991178321921 https://twitter.com/jduffyrice/status/1270380991178321921 https://www.mpd150.com/what-are-we-talking-about-when-we-talk-about-a-police-free-future/ https://www.mpd150.com/what-are-we-talking-about-when-we-tal...
      - newacct583 6y ago
        Link me one significant policymaker, pundit, protest movement head or thought leader who "insists" on "abolition". Hell, I'll even take a name brand blogger. People say crazy shit somewhere, I'm sure. But even the Chapo folks aren't calling for this in the way you mean.