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> Feels familiar... Sadly, very much so as a person who has actually been in the Industry on both Continents. My old teammate and I went to a renown Chef's pla

> Feels familiar... Sadly, very much so as a person who has actually been in the Industry on both Continents. My old teammate and I went to a renown Chef's place near a skiing village to seek other prospects for him and he ordered one of the daily specials for the table, Linguini and clams, what we had was in his words 'like the packaged Lipton noodles.' Italian is my repertoire, so while I didn't speak my face said it all and we abruptly ended the meal then and there and they chose to drink instead. I couldn't even enjoy the house spirits, which they made on site at the distillery, as it was incredibly bitter and I just slid it to my friend. Hours earlier we were eating local, seasonal stone-fruit and some so-so grocery store tier charcuterie paired with wine from Rioja I had brought for an aperativo, that quite honestly was 1/5 the price of the bill but overall way more balanced and satisfying then anything I had in that restaurant. It's sad, because I know that restaurants are really hurting right now as a whole, and some of the stories really cut deep, but I'd argue that had nothing changed the US culinary World would eventually just be indistinguishable from the Commercial crap that litters Attractions like DisneyLand and such and caters to the lowest common denominator. Commercialization and commodification is almost like a Religion in the US and that expands to its food/diet with horrible consequences (diabetes/heart disease); whereas in much of the rest of the World, Food has much more significance and reverence than Religion as an institution ever had: I've eaten Sunday Ragu at the Nona's house, covered in Catholic Art and crucifixes, with a devout Atheist in Italy who would bow his head before eating just to be able to enjoy the amazing 2-3 hour dining experience! I mean the idea of re-inventing the grilled cheese, or Bao with friend chicken or having sprinkle-laden sweets is quite honestly pathetic given how rich the Ag culture is in certain places of the US. Not to mention all of the European, Asian, African and Central/South American diaspora that happened. To this day my favorite spots to eat are usually tiny, mom/pop Asian spots like pho places, or Thai restaurants with limited menu offerings. They do something they know and love, and do it well. No glitz, no glamour, no celebrity chef: just amazing food. And when you tip them 50-100% of the bill their faces still light up. > Americans were also renowned for eating with great speed: Delmonico’s scheduled an average of eight to ten minutes per course for their fourteen-course meal. Dinner was served from 2 p.m. to 5 p.m. Food could still be had later in the evening, but choices were more limited. This is also something I think really irks me about US (food) culture in general; I never accepted any job offer that didn't allow me to have a 1 hour lunch after my horrible experience when I worked in a Lab. And while this haste model makes sense for things like Ramen, something I only have a luke-warm relationship with, it's not something I would ever consider a desirable attribute in a Culture, and one of the reasons I never felt truly at home in the US. The notion of rushing what is often the most social, a pleasurable period of my day (Dinner) is unfathomable to me. Being at the table for 2-4 hours is not an exception, it's a norm when I dine with family and friends.

phonypc 6y ago
I think they were commenting on the fact that it's still fashionable to look down on American food as uncultured. Case in point, your post.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  It doesn't have to be, is my point. I've done 'New American' at a Farm to Table and we did 20k+ nights 4-5 day days of the week during the peak season.
  - phonypc 6y ago
    It isn't in general, and never was, is my point. Merely fashionable to think of it as so. My local McDonald's probably does 20k+ days all week too. What of it?
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > It isn't in general, and never was, is my point. Merely fashionable to think of it as so. I disagree, and many chefs in the US have been trying to make significant inroads to that end: some more than others of course. Fashionable, well, that's the to be expected its called Culinary Art for a reason, and the whims of fashion are inevitable: if you go back to what was regarded as gastronomical Haute couture in the 80s it looks pre-historically antiquated and drab in comparison to something coming from someone like Ferran Adria, or René Redzepi from the last decade. But just focusing on the synopsis of what was found in those menus in the US, I'd argue those menu's of the past are far more sophisticated then they are now and would be an improvement to revert to in just about every way: > Freedman’s appendix lists 928 entrees served at New York’s Fifth Avenue Hotel between 1859 and 1865. Nine variations on calf’s head. Fillet of beef and fish, but also chicken, duck, goose, green turtle, grouse, lamb, mutton, pigeon, pork, veal, and venison. Almost all of those meats could also be found hashed. Fried eel and six variations of frog, including “fried English style.” If you hungered for lamb fries (which are testicles), there were at least five ways they could be prepared. Many wild birds were on the menu, including plover with Champagne sauce, snipe in cases, and rice birds with toast. For the nose-to-tail crowd, there were thirteen different tripe preparations. > My local McDonald's probably does 20k+ days all week too. What of it? Many things, not least of which is that its upholding to the standards of a more sustainable and nourishing business model, but also proving that doing things the right way, that is eating local, seasonally and organic can also be profitable. It's incredibly hard work running for 8.5 months like that with 60+ hour work weeks and only one day off to recover, I had ran kitchens before but that level of volume was not something I had ever encountered until my last role where I had over 60% of the menu on the busiest station in the restaurant, but my aforementioned teammate, who worked saute, actually did 21 day runs at one point when we were losing everyone. But looking back at it the reward is pretty significant, especially now that the Industry is literately in shambles and may never fully recover or go back to what it was. Which for some of us is ultimately a good thing. If you have time to actually look into what this Industry is, as I doubt you have or will ever work in it given what you've said thus far, check out David Chang's Too Small to Fail podcasts [1] where both David Chang and Chris Ying interview some Restauranteurs/Chefs who have dared to defy the odds and try to make those 'inroads' on their own own dime. The episode with Ann Kim, a Korean immigrant chef who's family migrated to Minneapolis, spoke about the recent riots was f'ing heart heart-breaking and emotive. I never wanted to launch my own restaurant, I had enough sadistic ventures being a boot-strapping fintech Founder for one Lifetime, but I could totally empathize with her story and plight. 1: https://open.spotify.com/show/0y4DksD5a6sJvcVR6okX5r?go=1&utm_source=embed_v3&t=0&nd=1 https://open.spotify.com/show/0y4DksD5a6sJvcVR6okX5r?go=1&ut...

phonypc 6y ago

I think they were commenting on the fact that it's still fashionable to look down on American food as uncultured. Case in point, your post.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
It doesn't have to be, is my point. I've done 'New American' at a Farm to Table and we did 20k+ nights 4-5 day days of the week during the peak season.
- phonypc 6y ago
  It isn't in general, and never was, is my point. Merely fashionable to think of it as so. My local McDonald's probably does 20k+ days all week too. What of it?
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > It isn't in general, and never was, is my point. Merely fashionable to think of it as so. I disagree, and many chefs in the US have been trying to make significant inroads to that end: some more than others of course. Fashionable, well, that's the to be expected its called Culinary Art for a reason, and the whims of fashion are inevitable: if you go back to what was regarded as gastronomical Haute couture in the 80s it looks pre-historically antiquated and drab in comparison to something coming from someone like Ferran Adria, or René Redzepi from the last decade. But just focusing on the synopsis of what was found in those menus in the US, I'd argue those menu's of the past are far more sophisticated then they are now and would be an improvement to revert to in just about every way: > Freedman’s appendix lists 928 entrees served at New York’s Fifth Avenue Hotel between 1859 and 1865. Nine variations on calf’s head. Fillet of beef and fish, but also chicken, duck, goose, green turtle, grouse, lamb, mutton, pigeon, pork, veal, and venison. Almost all of those meats could also be found hashed. Fried eel and six variations of frog, including “fried English style.” If you hungered for lamb fries (which are testicles), there were at least five ways they could be prepared. Many wild birds were on the menu, including plover with Champagne sauce, snipe in cases, and rice birds with toast. For the nose-to-tail crowd, there were thirteen different tripe preparations. > My local McDonald's probably does 20k+ days all week too. What of it? Many things, not least of which is that its upholding to the standards of a more sustainable and nourishing business model, but also proving that doing things the right way, that is eating local, seasonally and organic can also be profitable. It's incredibly hard work running for 8.5 months like that with 60+ hour work weeks and only one day off to recover, I had ran kitchens before but that level of volume was not something I had ever encountered until my last role where I had over 60% of the menu on the busiest station in the restaurant, but my aforementioned teammate, who worked saute, actually did 21 day runs at one point when we were losing everyone. But looking back at it the reward is pretty significant, especially now that the Industry is literately in shambles and may never fully recover or go back to what it was. Which for some of us is ultimately a good thing. If you have time to actually look into what this Industry is, as I doubt you have or will ever work in it given what you've said thus far, check out David Chang's Too Small to Fail podcasts [1] where both David Chang and Chris Ying interview some Restauranteurs/Chefs who have dared to defy the odds and try to make those 'inroads' on their own own dime. The episode with Ann Kim, a Korean immigrant chef who's family migrated to Minneapolis, spoke about the recent riots was f'ing heart heart-breaking and emotive. I never wanted to launch my own restaurant, I had enough sadistic ventures being a boot-strapping fintech Founder for one Lifetime, but I could totally empathize with her story and plight. 1: https://open.spotify.com/show/0y4DksD5a6sJvcVR6okX5r?go=1&utm_source=embed_v3&t=0&nd=1 https://open.spotify.com/show/0y4DksD5a6sJvcVR6okX5r?go=1&ut...