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from the article: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ct284e/tesla_just_listed_my_buyback_model_3_for_33k/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/commen

from the article: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ct284e/tesla_just_listed_my_buyback_model_3_for_33k/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ct284e/tesla_j... The article also noted a former employee is involved in a lawsuit accusing Tesla of reselling lemons.

newacct583 6y ago
But... that link clearly says it was not a lemon buyback! It's not illegal to voluntarily buy a car back and then resell it. Lemon laws are a very specific thing, that effectively force a manufacturer to buy the product back. If it wasn't invoked, then it doesn't apply.
- gthtjtkt 6y ago
  Yeah, and I didn't steal that guy's car, I just borrowed it indefinitely without his permission. It's a totally different thing, officer!
  - extropy 6y ago
    While shady, it's not illegal. Assuming the law said the car is lemon after x repair attempts and Tesla bought it back after x-1 so that lemon law would not apply and they could still resell it.
- hwillis 6y ago
  Lemon laws are not a very specific thing, they are wildly different between states. Not all lemon laws require disclosure, but some states require disclosure even if a lemon claim isn't actually filed but the car meets the criteria: https://www.lemberglaw.com/lemon-law/rights/lemon-laundering/ https://www.lemberglaw.com/lemon-law/rights/lemon-laundering...
  - newacct583 6y ago
    And I ask again, what exactly is Tesla accused of doing that violates lemon laws. As I see it, we have two facts: 1. Tesla sometimes does repairs via "goodwill" accounting instead of standard warrantee service. On it's face, this sounds like a good thing. 2. Tesla bought some guys car, then resold it. Again, that's a good thing in isolation. And the suggestion is that they did the goodwill thing so that they could scam the new owner of the car by evading lemon law disclosure. Well, OK. Did they? Show us the evidence. If there's no actual car that got sold where you can document these repairs and show they were unresolved... I just don't think there's much of a case here. The only way this makes sense is if you start out a priori with an assumption that Tesla is trying to scam their customers, then try to find a scenario where they could do it. That works for writing novel plots, it's not much evidence in an actual court.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      I agree. The trouble is, righteous indignation is a drug. And America is hooked on it now. For whatever reason (internet, polarized politics, boredom).
    - hwillis 6y ago
      > Tesla sometimes does repairs via "goodwill" accounting instead of standard warrantee service. On it's face, this sounds like a good thing. In what way is that possibly good?? At best its a deliberate mischaracterization that obscures the number of serious manufacturing flaws. At worst its fraudulent accounting. > And the suggestion is that they did the goodwill thing so that they could scam the new owner of the car by evading lemon law disclosure. Well, OK. Did they? Show us the evidence. If there's no actual car that got sold where you can document these repairs and show they were unresolved... I just don't think there's much of a case here. I linked two, and theres firsthand testimony from someone who was in the company. You're just freely making shit up
      - perl4ever 6y ago
        >In what way is that possibly good?? At best its a deliberate mischaracterization that obscures the number of serious manufacturing flaws. At worst its fraudulent accounting. At best it's not a deliberate mischaracterization. It depends on the judgment call of whether the repairs would otherwise be covered under warranty.

newacct583 6y ago

But... that link clearly says it was not a lemon buyback! It's not illegal to voluntarily buy a car back and then resell it. Lemon laws are a very specific thing, that effectively force a manufacturer to buy the product back. If it wasn't invoked, then it doesn't apply.

gthtjtkt 6y ago
Yeah, and I didn't steal that guy's car, I just borrowed it indefinitely without his permission. It's a totally different thing, officer!
- extropy 6y ago
  While shady, it's not illegal. Assuming the law said the car is lemon after x repair attempts and Tesla bought it back after x-1 so that lemon law would not apply and they could still resell it.
hwillis 6y ago
Lemon laws are not a very specific thing, they are wildly different between states. Not all lemon laws require disclosure, but some states require disclosure even if a lemon claim isn't actually filed but the car meets the criteria: https://www.lemberglaw.com/lemon-law/rights/lemon-laundering/ https://www.lemberglaw.com/lemon-law/rights/lemon-laundering...
- newacct583 6y ago
  And I ask again, what exactly is Tesla accused of doing that violates lemon laws. As I see it, we have two facts: 1. Tesla sometimes does repairs via "goodwill" accounting instead of standard warrantee service. On it's face, this sounds like a good thing. 2. Tesla bought some guys car, then resold it. Again, that's a good thing in isolation. And the suggestion is that they did the goodwill thing so that they could scam the new owner of the car by evading lemon law disclosure. Well, OK. Did they? Show us the evidence. If there's no actual car that got sold where you can document these repairs and show they were unresolved... I just don't think there's much of a case here. The only way this makes sense is if you start out a priori with an assumption that Tesla is trying to scam their customers, then try to find a scenario where they could do it. That works for writing novel plots, it's not much evidence in an actual court.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    I agree. The trouble is, righteous indignation is a drug. And America is hooked on it now. For whatever reason (internet, polarized politics, boredom).
  - hwillis 6y ago
    > Tesla sometimes does repairs via "goodwill" accounting instead of standard warrantee service. On it's face, this sounds like a good thing. In what way is that possibly good?? At best its a deliberate mischaracterization that obscures the number of serious manufacturing flaws. At worst its fraudulent accounting. > And the suggestion is that they did the goodwill thing so that they could scam the new owner of the car by evading lemon law disclosure. Well, OK. Did they? Show us the evidence. If there's no actual car that got sold where you can document these repairs and show they were unresolved... I just don't think there's much of a case here. I linked two, and theres firsthand testimony from someone who was in the company. You're just freely making shit up
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      >In what way is that possibly good?? At best its a deliberate mischaracterization that obscures the number of serious manufacturing flaws. At worst its fraudulent accounting. At best it's not a deliberate mischaracterization. It depends on the judgment call of whether the repairs would otherwise be covered under warranty.