13 ms·
July 11, 2020 RIP my darling boy
- troughway 6y agoHas the prosecutor on his case been brought to light and justice yet? If not, why not?
- jupiterboy 6y agoUsing a throwaway in effort to avoid being arbitrarily harassed, but: of course not, almost as a matter of course, the state does not bring justice against itself, especially when you can defer or abstract away the fundamentals as "law enforcement" or "investigations." A reminder that even with the wave of media attention, approximately zero of the cops involved in the recent unambiguous murder of black people have been brought to justice.
- phone8675309 6y agoWe can only hope that a private citizen takes great vengeance upon them in the dark, quiet hours of the night, when they least expect it.
- credit_guy 6y agoThe idea of "checks and balances" is that the state absolutely can and should bring justice "against itself". Or rather that there are multiple branches in the state, and whenever one commits an abuse some of the other branches will pursue justice on behalf of the victims.
- tux1968 6y ago> approximately zero of the cops... have been brought to justice. Is that true though? At least in the recent George Floyd case the 4 cops involved were all fired the next day from their jobs and have all been charged and are awaiting trial.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- GaryNumanVevo 6y agoAfter weeks of protests, they were charged. I have no doubt if it weren't for the protests the officers would have had desk duty for a few months and put back out on the street.
- tux1968 6y agoThey were all fired the very next day after the incident.
- jgon 6y agoAfter the murder. They were fired the very next day after murdering a man. When we call it an "incident" our sanitized language steals all of the context and meaning of the event. When a person drinks too much at a Christmas party it is an incident. When someone has a nervous breakdown in public, it is an incident. When someone kneels on a person's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds, as they beg for mercy, say they can't breath, and then cry out for their mother it is a murder. They were fired after murdering a man. Can you imagine that standard being applied to literally any single other field than police officers?
- tux1968 6y agoI have never seen the video and I don't know enough about it to declare it a murder, sorry. The main point of my reply was to assuage the fears of the parent that they would have gotten desk duty and been put back on the street without weeks of protest.
- perfmode 6y agoif you haven’t seen the video and you don’t know enough about it, why do you feel your contributions to the discussion are worthwhile?
- empath75 6y agoProsecutors routinely get away with worse every single day. You just don’t hear about most of them because they don’t usually target rich kids.
- Kednicma 6y agoNever forget. We are fighting for our rights. Also never forget that we're having this discussion on a site that is hostile to us.
- pjc50 6y agoHN is not hostile to fans of Swartz.
- Kednicma 6y agoFeel free to let my five downvoters know; I'm sure that that "not hostile" will change their minds. HN is hostile to people like Swartz who actively work to tear down information silos, shine light on government and corporate secrets, and advocate for intellectual property reform. It's not an accident that shit_hn_says, n-gate, /r/SneerClub, and other critics of HN, can make most of their commentary simply by quoting HN discussion and juxtaposing it next to basic paraphrases of what was said; so much of what's said here is rude towards the rest of the world that merely quoting the discussion is sufficient to highlight its farcical and close-minded nature.
- solarengineer 6y agoSorry, you are making things up. At the time of Aaron's demise, the entire first page at HN was full of articles about him. We'd all discussed quite a bit here as well as elsewhere. As for "shit hn says", we are all not even from the same part of the world and have very diverse cultures and divergent viewpoints as well. There's no single "hn" that you allude to.
- Kednicma 6y agoOh, shit_hn_says [0] is a Twitter account which mocks the serious-yet-rude attitude of folks on this site. Their posts are curated selections from normal HN discourse; the entirety of the criticism is that some person genuinely believed what they wrote. I'm not trying to paint some picture of folks unsympathetic or uncaring. I'm saying that no amount of thoughts nor prayers are going to be equivalent to doing the hard work of changing the world to be less horrible. If we are going to spend a thread remembering the sacrifice of such a person, martyred for not just their beliefs but their works, then we ought to at least acknowledge the mismatch between what Swartz did with his life, and what commenters here are doing with their life while they're sending in thoughts and prayers. [0] https://twitter.com/shit_hn_says https://twitter.com/shit_hn_says
- xvilka 6y agoPeople who work for JSTOR are complicit in this crime.
- nicoburns 6y agoI thought JSTOR wanted not to press charges, but the public prosecutor decided to do so anyway.
- ryandrake 6y agoA little off-topic but the idea that a private party can request (or not) to “press charges” is kind of a TV/Hollywood trope, isn’t it? It’s not some button that a victim of a crime can go and “press” to activate a trial. Prosecutors decide whether or not to pursue criminal cases.
- pravus 6y agoNo, it's correct. I've been involved in several incidents where the police asked if I wanted to "press charges" against the offender. For minor incidents this greatly reduces caseload while giving me the opportunity to ensure I get justice. Prosecutors have the option of pressing charges on behalf of their jurisdiction for criminal cases and can sometimes do so even if the violated party declines to press charges themselves.
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y agoAssuming you're talking about the US, you're slightly mistaken. The police just use the phrase in the colloquial sense, as a way of asking if you'd co-operate with a prosecution. The actual report gets written up then goes to the DA's office. The DA's office ultimately makes the call. Your cooperation is a big factor, but it won't force their decision. A private citizen doesn't have the authority to force the DA to bring charges if the DA decides it's not worthwhile.
- justinpombrio 6y agoI think the idea is that the victim's testimony is often central to the case. So if they refuse to testify, or say in court that everything is fine, then it's likely the case falls apart. So whether or not they can technically prevent the case, they can often effectively prevent it. More detail: https://conncriminaldefense.com/blog/how-do-you-not-press-charges/ https://conncriminaldefense.com/blog/how-do-you-not-press-ch...
- jupiterboy 6y agoWhether we're comfortable calling it as such or not, this should be considered a culpable murder. Suicide is the reasonably foreseeable outcome of being capriciously targeted by the overwhelming violence of the government. I am so sorry for the loss. Aaron was clearly a hugely valuable human being.
- annadane 6y agoI agree. I'm not fond of the apologists. Swarz deserved to be treated better
- arp242 6y agoI don't think anyone here really disagrees with that.
- oh_sigh 6y agoAaron committed suicide because he was suicidal, not because of the prosecution. He admitted to thinking about suicide and being depressed multiple times in the past even before the prosecution. At the very least, no reasonable person would commit suicide before the outcome of the trial was even decided(e.g. Slobodan Praljak) The prosecution against him was unwarranted from an ethical perspective, but that doesn't mean it alone drove him to suicide. Laying the blame solely on external factors for a suicide does an extreme disservice to the understanding of depression and mental illness.
- jupiterboy 6y agoIn principle, I agree with your comment, but there is a significant difference in the contributory factor and in your responsibility and duty of care when your job is to participate in the direction of threats, imprisonment and violence towards individuals.
- slg 6y agoI agree that the prosecutors were unnecessarily aggressive in the way they want after Aaron in this case. However it is a dangerous precedent to set that anyone who does something that might be seen as a catalyst for suicide can be found culpable in a murder. If someone gets fired for their job and commits suicide, is their boss liable? If someone is dumped by their significant other and commits suicide, is their former partner liable? This also isn't getting into the problem this presents for the legal system. Does someone fabricating suicidal thoughts force the government's hand into a lighter sentence? Also suicide is never a "reasonably foreseeable outcome" when someone is faced with a 6 month jail sentence. There are literally millions of people in jail in this country for longer sentences that never consider suicide. Anyone who thinks throwing away the 50 years post jail sentence is worth not having to endure a rough few months is not in a good mental state. This country does a horrible job helping people with mental health issues. That is generally what kills people who die by suicide. It isn't whatever event is ultimately the impetus for the action.
- rasengan0 6y agoFound this on Reddit? rss? I just think about all the influence a life can have. Thank you Aaron Sorely missed.
- ykevinator 6y agoWhat is this about?
- klyrs 6y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
- seebetter 6y agoBased on this story with Aaron and experiences in the 1990s with hacker friends, my opinion of federal prosecutors is very low. I see them as highly educated people who excel in relativism and twist ethics and law to achieve narrow goals without regard to principles. Compounding this, I also got into a dispute with two former federal prosecutors, both of whom did wildly unethical things. One represents the Police Chief and the Sheriff of a major city. I can't even believe that former US Attorneys would act this way, but then I'm reminded by Alexander Acosta who protected Epstein.
- doublesCs 6y ago> I see them as highly educated people who excel in relativism and twist ethics and law to achieve narrow goals without regard to principles. That's how I see most lawyers.
- coldtea 6y agoThat's great for lawyers, it's part of their job description. Lawyers are not about morals and truth, they're about defending their client, guilty or not. It's bad for prosecutors, though...
- kiba 6y agoThey should be defending their client?
- eloff 6y agoExactly. How can you have a fair trial if the defence lawyer won't give his best? Just look at the sham justice served if a person can't afford counsel and has to use a public defender. In the US being rich or poor can make the difference in whether or not a person goes to jail for a crime. I understand people get upset when they help a very likely guilty person get off (OJ Simpson anyone? see the point about being rich above.) But defence lawyers have an important job, irrespective of who they're representing or what they're alleged to have done.
- austinl 6y agoTake some time to read through Aaron's blog if you haven't: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/archive http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/archive. I'd recommend starting with his series of posts called Raw Nerve (http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rawnerve http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rawnerve).
- JCharante 6y agoOnce you finish those, there's loads more to find on archive.org of the previous two iterations of his blog. At least those are the ones I know about.
- disposekinetics 6y agoAaron was so many things I aspire to be. He was hero who's contributions to technology so many of use use daily.
- gws 6y agoHis death was incredibly touching to me, and I’m not a sentimental guy. I asked myself why that was the case and the answer I came up with is that he was a true idealist, what I longed to be but did not have the ____ to
- rvense 6y ago"Aaron dead. World wanderers, we have lost a wise elder. Hackers for right, we are one down. Parents all, we have lost a child. Let us weep." (Tim Berners-Lee)
- fmajid 6y agoHis mother's grief is heartbreaking. Prosecutors in the US are almost as lawless as the police.
- _bxg1 6y agoFor those who don't know who this is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
- anonymousiam 6y agoBe sure to also read: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/aaron-swartzs-lawyer-accuses-prosecutor-of-misconduct/?comments=1 https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/aaron-swartzs-la...
- matsemann 6y agoI learned of him some time after the events, by joining HN. What was the discussion here like at the time? Both the charges and later his death.
- radicalriddler 6y agoSearching on hn.algolia.com Top voted post at the time - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5046845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5046845 Five years later - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16141013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16141013
- charia 6y agoThis short story from Aaron Swartz' blog changed my life. http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/handwritingwall http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/handwritingwall It played a significant role in shaping my understanding of humanity, charity and what impact as a single human being can have. It was a big factor in why I joined the Effective Altruism movement and donate 10+% of my income yearly. I highly recommend reading it. It saddens me greatly that person who was so forward thinking and was only looking out for the future of humanity was taken away so young.
- aliante 6y ago> It saddens me greatly that person who was so forward thinking and was only looking out for the future of humanity was taken away so young. You can justify anything by claiming you are "looking out for the future of humanity."
- Reelin 6y ago> You can justify anything by claiming you are "looking out for the future of humanity." You're right, you can. That being said, in context I dispute your low effort implication that what he did was wrong. As far as I'm concerned his actions were unquestionably the right ones from the perspective of the greater good. It is with pure glee that I watch SciHub's continued success and Elsevier's impotent attempts to stop them. The academic literature is rightfully a commons.
- 101008 6y agoThe story is very good and I would recommend everyone to read it because it is eye opening. However, I don't agree with the example given. * Spoilers * It is not defnitely the same to say "Kill 10 people so I can keep my earnings" than "I will kill 10 people so I can steal theirs". It is definitely not. I am not saying capitalism is fair, but in the first case I (or whoever is that person) earn their stuff working, while in the second case the outcome may be the same but the path isn't.
- serniebanders 6y agoI actually donated all of my income this year, all the money I earned after paying for food and rent. That amounted to about 300k. Saved my ass during taxes yesterday. Owed the government around 80k, but then after I put my charitable donations it looks like I may actually get some money back from the government (which again, I would be donating).
- _bxg1 6y agoNobody's life should be ruined over something as banal as copyright infringement. Nobody. Period. Idealist or not. This should be enshrined in law.
- akersten 6y agoIt's disgusting that we've allowed violation of copyright to be a criminal offense. It should be a civil offense at most, with no possibility of jail time. No wasting money extraditing Kim Dotcom from NZ, no ruining kids' lives for downloading music from the internet. I'm appalled at Disney, Comcast, and any other media giant that has successfully lobbied for the expansion of the monstrous copyright regime in the USA. Did you know the FBI wastes time looking into this kind of stuff? Shameful.
- ve55 6y agoCopyright laws are often some of the most user-hostile laws that regularly seem to be passed in many countries recently
- _bxg1 6y agoIt's a very efficient mechanism for a handful of very powerful companies to slurp a limitless amount of money up without doing any work. Once a work is created, people will pay for it over and over again forever. And where there's a money-making scheme, there's legislation to back it up.
- mindslight 6y agoMeanwhile, "we address the predominant form of theft in the US with civil court cases, not criminal cases" : https://twitter.com/djmckenna00/status/1269218616861437952 https://twitter.com/djmckenna00/status/1269218616861437952
- prirun 6y agoDid you know that the Dept of Homeland Security wastes time on copyright violations? Truly shameful.
- rglovejoy 6y agoThe way MIT persecuted Aaron is one reason why this alum no longer gives it money.
- ta17711771 6y agoDid they? Or did they just not speak out publicly against the prosecutor?
- an-allen 6y agoEverytime I am reminded of this event, I remember the rage... and it cuts just like it did when it happened 7 and a half years ago. It actually makes my stomach wrench and my eyes swell with tears... this is what injustice looks like. this is what a failing society and culture looks like. this is tragedy. this is heartlessness. this is evil.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- justanotheranon 6y agoi recently came across some info the implications are shocking. read this thread: https://threader.app/thread/1214173689111031808 https://threader.app/thread/1214173689111031808 Aaron had been helping Assange and Wikileaks very early on. In 2009, Wikileaks released files from the Congressional Research Service, apparently obtained by scraping their website using a trivial by-pass to access non-public files. Aaron had worked on the staff of Congressman Grayson during the same time period. What if it was Aaron poking around the CRS website as part of his job duties who found that bug and then gave it to Assange? That would make Aaron the "source" for that 2009 leak--one of the first things published by then young Wikileaks. what if the reason DOJ so harshly persecuted Aaron was because of his involvement with Wikileaks? This is speculation, as there is no explicit evidence supporting this. Aaron's connection to Wikileaks seems like an important enough coincidence that I cannot rule it out. But I have always wondered: just how far does the US govt go to suppress and permanently silence people who are Enemies of the State? Especially talented programmers who are digitial natives well equipped to challenge systems of power which are more and more based on technical and information supremacy?
- rshnotsecure 6y agoThere have been rumors that people are being permanently held in Corecivic prisons, where all their communications are monitored via Securus Technologies. Of course the guards don't know, they're good people...they are just told so-and-so "is crazy and thinks he discovered a conspiracy". No comment on this, although I posted to show what the farthest extent postulated is for the question you asked. But Corecivic.com is not a good company certainly and likes to pretend it is the Bureau of Prisons (which has real authority from a legal sovereign state), and lol has previous hosted on Huawei Cloud of all places.
- rshnotsecure 6y agoContact me? vixie@12security.com. I assume you're in the US. If not best not contact probably not that safe...