5 ms·

Not needed now. My A12 equipped iPad has considerably more grunt than my i7 intel laptop.

by m0xte 6y ago

gruez 6y ago
>My A12 equipped iPad has considerably more grunt than my i7 intel laptop. I know this meme gets brought up a lot, but has this claim been backed up by benchmarks that's not geekbench?
- my123 6y ago
  Yes, the arm Mac developer transition kit which runs a much wider variety of software with the same chip (including x86 SW) answered that. At IDA Pro, the DTK is actually faster than a 16 inch MBP in practice... (and that's with an x86_64 copy of IDA... as an arm64 one doesn't exist yet, workload being tested was loading an iOS kernelcache)
- rayiner 6y ago
  Yes, SPEC, which is a real world suite of applications, like GCC: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-review-unveiling-the-silicon-secrets/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-re...
  - gruez 6y ago
    I was too lazy to collate the numbers together, so I found this comparison chart https://old.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/9lup3m/iphone_xs_spec_2006_integer_performance_compared/e79kikr/ https://old.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/9lup3m/iphone_xs_sp.... The A12 looks faster in some cases, but not by much overall. It definitely doesn't support the claim that it has "considerably more grunt" than an i7.
    - m0xte 6y ago
      Some comparison points. It's not all about hard benchmarks but what workloads you throw at the devices. 1. The A12Z in my iPad has 2 more vortex cores than the base A12 and 4 more GPU cores. 2. I'm comparing to my laptop, a T470 with i7-7600U in it. 3. My (I did explicitly say that) laptop's modern equivalent, an i7-8565u, is dog shit compared to the iPad still and costs 100% more. Some benchmarks if we need them: https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i7-8565u https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i7-8565u https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2898525 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2898525 Now if you do any video processing on the ipad, it'll chunk through 4k like my Ryzen 3700X does if it's HEVC and barely even get warm, but that's the T2 ASIC in it. The point being, if you compare a modernish "professional laptop" with an i7 in it, to an iPad, the iPad will rip it a new orifice. ARM + ASICs for other functions (ML/security/codec) run rings around any general x86 CPU on performance per watt for sure. Comparing as you did to a Xeon with 165W TDP is comedy but illustrative yes.
      - gruez 6y ago
        >Some benchmarks if we need them: >https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i7-8565u https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i7-8565u >https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2898525 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2898525 My original question: "but has this claim been backed up by benchmarks that's not geekbench?" >Now if you do any video processing on the ipad, it'll chunk through 4k like my Ryzen 3700X does if it's HEVC and barely even get warm, but that's the T2 ASIC in it. >ARM + ASICs for other functions (ML/security/codec) run rings around any general x86 CPU on performance per watt for sure. Comparing hardware accelerated HEVC performance to software cpu performance isn't fair and is shifting the goalposts. If you're going by that logic you can also say that a snapdragon 865 (hardware rendering) has "considerably more grunt" a 64 core threadripper (software rendering). While we're at it, we can also compare A12 to intel/amd in other aspects, such as memory support, floating point performance, and sustained performance, all of which I'm confident A12 wouldn't do well in. >Comparing as you did to a Xeon with 165W TDP is comedy but illustrative yes. So? The xeon cpu also has 28 cores and 56 threads, whereas the A12 only has 2 "big" cores (the ones being benchmarked). Dividing 165 by 28 gets you to a more reasonable TDP of 5.89W per core.
        skavi 6y ago
        This review[0] has SPEC2006 scores for the A12X in the iPad Pro 2018. The same review estimates the per core power at around ~4W. This review[1] compares the SPEC2006 score of the A13 to high end modern desktop chips. The A13 is very close despite its power consumption being much lower. [0]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13661/the-2018-apple-ipad-pro-11-inch-review/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13661/the-2018-apple-ipad-pro... [1]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14892/the-apple-iphone-11-pro-and-max-review/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/14892/the-apple-iphone-11-pro...
      - skavi 6y ago
        Your iPad doesn't have a T2 in it. That's the name for the ARM coprocessor inside of newer Macs (2018+), which IIRC shares some similarities with the A10, including (probably) the media block. The 3700X contains its own encoding blocks which would make a better comparison.
- kcb 6y ago
  No its a ridiculous claim. Not to mention that "superior" performance lasts a few seconds before throttling.
monocasa 6y ago
i7 from when?
- slantyyz 6y ago
  Not just from when, but type of processor as well. U? H? HQ?
- m0xte 6y ago
  I'm comparing to mobile U-series in my (explicitly stated) laptop which is a T470. So for me an i7-7600U. But if you throw a T490 on the table with an i7-8565U it'll blow holes in that as well. As well as I'm sure nearly all mobile CPUs. I'm sure the A14 or whatever comes along, with higher core count and better thermals for desktop use, will do the same for desktop CPUs.
  - eknkc 6y ago
    That i7 is on par with 2011-2012 era macs (https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/1821 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/1821, https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks).
  - monocasa 6y ago
    I mean, an i7-8565U is old too, and was released before they could get the spectre/meltdown fixes in hardware. An i7-10510U (which is the closest thing I could find, an upper mid range ultrabook part) is significantly faster than an A12Z.

Not needed now. My A12 equipped iPad has considerably more grunt than my i7 intel laptop.

by m0xte 6y ago

Not needed now. My A12 equipped iPad has considerably more grunt than my i7 intel laptop.

>My A12 equipped iPad has considerably more grunt than my i7 intel laptop. I know this meme gets brought up a lot, but has this claim been backed up by benchmarks that's not geekbench?

my123 6y ago
Yes, the arm Mac developer transition kit which runs a much wider variety of software with the same chip (including x86 SW) answered that. At IDA Pro, the DTK is actually faster than a 16 inch MBP in practice... (and that's with an x86_64 copy of IDA... as an arm64 one doesn't exist yet, workload being tested was loading an iOS kernelcache)
rayiner 6y ago
Yes, SPEC, which is a real world suite of applications, like GCC: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-review-unveiling-the-silicon-secrets/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-re...
- gruez 6y ago
  I was too lazy to collate the numbers together, so I found this comparison chart https://old.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/9lup3m/iphone_xs_spec_2006_integer_performance_compared/e79kikr/ https://old.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/9lup3m/iphone_xs_sp.... The A12 looks faster in some cases, but not by much overall. It definitely doesn't support the claim that it has "considerably more grunt" than an i7.
  - m0xte 6y ago
    Some comparison points. It's not all about hard benchmarks but what workloads you throw at the devices. 1. The A12Z in my iPad has 2 more vortex cores than the base A12 and 4 more GPU cores. 2. I'm comparing to my laptop, a T470 with i7-7600U in it. 3. My (I did explicitly say that) laptop's modern equivalent, an i7-8565u, is dog shit compared to the iPad still and costs 100% more. Some benchmarks if we need them: https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i7-8565u https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i7-8565u https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2898525 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2898525 Now if you do any video processing on the ipad, it'll chunk through 4k like my Ryzen 3700X does if it's HEVC and barely even get warm, but that's the T2 ASIC in it. The point being, if you compare a modernish "professional laptop" with an i7 in it, to an iPad, the iPad will rip it a new orifice. ARM + ASICs for other functions (ML/security/codec) run rings around any general x86 CPU on performance per watt for sure. Comparing as you did to a Xeon with 165W TDP is comedy but illustrative yes.
    - gruez 6y ago
      >Some benchmarks if we need them: >https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i7-8565u https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i7-8565u >https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2898525 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/2898525 My original question: "but has this claim been backed up by benchmarks that's not geekbench?" >Now if you do any video processing on the ipad, it'll chunk through 4k like my Ryzen 3700X does if it's HEVC and barely even get warm, but that's the T2 ASIC in it. >ARM + ASICs for other functions (ML/security/codec) run rings around any general x86 CPU on performance per watt for sure. Comparing hardware accelerated HEVC performance to software cpu performance isn't fair and is shifting the goalposts. If you're going by that logic you can also say that a snapdragon 865 (hardware rendering) has "considerably more grunt" a 64 core threadripper (software rendering). While we're at it, we can also compare A12 to intel/amd in other aspects, such as memory support, floating point performance, and sustained performance, all of which I'm confident A12 wouldn't do well in. >Comparing as you did to a Xeon with 165W TDP is comedy but illustrative yes. So? The xeon cpu also has 28 cores and 56 threads, whereas the A12 only has 2 "big" cores (the ones being benchmarked). Dividing 165 by 28 gets you to a more reasonable TDP of 5.89W per core.
      - skavi 6y ago
        This review[0] has SPEC2006 scores for the A12X in the iPad Pro 2018. The same review estimates the per core power at around ~4W. This review[1] compares the SPEC2006 score of the A13 to high end modern desktop chips. The A13 is very close despite its power consumption being much lower. [0]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13661/the-2018-apple-ipad-pro-11-inch-review/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13661/the-2018-apple-ipad-pro... [1]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14892/the-apple-iphone-11-pro-and-max-review/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/14892/the-apple-iphone-11-pro...
    - skavi 6y ago
      Your iPad doesn't have a T2 in it. That's the name for the ARM coprocessor inside of newer Macs (2018+), which IIRC shares some similarities with the A10, including (probably) the media block. The 3700X contains its own encoding blocks which would make a better comparison.
kcb 6y ago
No its a ridiculous claim. Not to mention that "superior" performance lasts a few seconds before throttling.

monocasa 6y ago

i7 from when?

slantyyz 6y ago
Not just from when, but type of processor as well. U? H? HQ?
m0xte 6y ago
I'm comparing to mobile U-series in my (explicitly stated) laptop which is a T470. So for me an i7-7600U. But if you throw a T490 on the table with an i7-8565U it'll blow holes in that as well. As well as I'm sure nearly all mobile CPUs. I'm sure the A14 or whatever comes along, with higher core count and better thermals for desktop use, will do the same for desktop CPUs.
- eknkc 6y ago
  That i7 is on par with 2011-2012 era macs (https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/1821 https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/1821, https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks).
- monocasa 6y ago
  I mean, an i7-8565U is old too, and was released before they could get the spectre/meltdown fixes in hardware. An i7-10510U (which is the closest thing I could find, an upper mid range ultrabook part) is significantly faster than an A12Z.