4 ms·

I would say only 1 Michael, The other one sold drugs in a country that specifically banned drugs

by hungryhobo 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
wendyshu 6y ago
Good point, committing a crime there is an especially bad idea.
- poiuytrewqa 6y ago
  Why there's a country where doing a crime is a good idea? I can recall that also US still have capital punishment for example
  - justwalt 6y ago
    I’d imagine it’s far easier to be sentenced to death there as opposed to the US.
    - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
      To be honest, as European I think China and US are pretty similar in many ways (propaganda, law enforcement etc). So said each country has their own problem but if anybody focus more on resolving their internal problem before teaching everybody how to live would be better. In this forum is very hard to discuss anything serious that doesn't follow the prevalent opinion that you get down votes without reason.
      - kolanos 6y ago
        > To be honest, as European I think China and US are pretty similar in many ways (propaganda, law enforcement etc). As a non-European, non-American and non-Chinese I find this utterly confused line of thinking depressing. It is clear Europeans are subject to their own propaganda in this regard.
        genoapol 6y ago
        Except the Chinese haven't acted like global parasites for the past few centuries like Europe and America.
        tristor 6y ago
        Even if you acknowledge that a global hegemony lead by the US currently exists, it certainly has not "for the past few centuries". Value judgements on whether that hegemony has been a net positive or net negative for the world, aside. I'd say your viewpoint of the world is not based on reality.
        IllogicalLogic 6y ago
        >Even if you acknowledge that a global hegemony lead by the US currently exists, it certainly has not "for the past few centuries". It stated "Europe & America" acted like global parasites. Just because we renamed part of the British Empire, it doesn't mean US history starts at Independence. The genocide that occurred on these continents (the Americas pre-independence) and the drugging and robbing of China for a century (post-independence) are some of the largest scale parasitic exercises in human history. Haven't even mentioned the 10-12 million enslaved...
        dang 6y ago
        We've banned this account for using HN primarily for political/ideological battle. Please don't do that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        kolanos 6y ago
        The U.S. (1865) and Britain (1833) abolished slavery before China did. > Slavery in China has taken various forms throughout history. Slavery was abolished as a legally recognized institution, including in a 1909 law fully enacted in 1910, although the practice continued until at least 1949. Illegal acts of forced labor and sexual slavery in China continue to occur in the twenty-first century, but those found guilty of such crimes are punished harshly. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_China
      - Karunamon 6y ago
        You're probably attracting downvotes because comparing China (show trials, double jeopardy, arbitrary and whim-based penalties) to the US when it comes to capital punishment is not even remotely accurate.
        petre 6y ago
        The US has a police brutality problem, not a fair trial issue like China. And yes, long prison terms, a private for profit prison system and the death penalty in some states.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - TinkersW 6y ago
        You do understand that much of the news you read about the US is wildly exaggerated? Having traveled and met various young Europeans they were often suffering from amazingly ignorant ideas about life in the US(particularly the Germans). One couple was scared they might get shot while traveling along coastal California. Surprise, gun violence is not evenly distributed, most Americans don't encounter any gun violence. Police violence? Never seen any except on TV. Weird hu? Seems to be plenty of propaganda in your own news media, why do you think you are equating China & USA?
        poiuytrewqa 6y ago
        The same problem you're referring to is also true for news regarding China. Have you ever thought about it? I've traveled for an extended time in both US and China and as you say you hardly get shot on a trip in California you also will not get arrested just for holding a foreign passport in Shanghai As far I'm concerned I felt much safer in China for many reason that I'm not here to explain.
- alex_anglin 6y ago
  Isn't the point of arbitrary arrest that the crime is figured out afterwards, if at all?
  - 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
    Sort of. In many Asian countries, the rule of law is very weak or nonexistent. This means you will eventually come into contact with the police - usually for the purpose of extorting a bribe from you.
    - genoapol 6y ago
      Don't bring drugs into Asia and expect to have a good time. This is one area that being ignorant of history can get one executed.
mthoms 6y ago
This is incorrect. The two Michaels have been accused of spying. You're thinking of a third Canadian Robert Schellenberg. His punished was suddenly changed from 15 years in prison to a death sentence after a recent retrial. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53104303 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53104303 https://globalnews.ca/news/5257482/robert-schellenberg-death-sentence-appeal-hearing-china/ https://globalnews.ca/news/5257482/robert-schellenberg-death...
- hungryhobo 6y ago
  Ah my bad
- nicholas73 6y ago
  IIRC, Schellenberg requested re-trial to try to take advantage of the politics despite that a re-trial had the possibility of increasing the penalty to death penalty even without political motivation. That is, he gambled and lost.
kolanos 6y ago
It appears the two Michaels were suspected of espionage? [0] The Canadians sentenced to death for drug smuggling were different people. [1] [0]: https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/04/asia/china-canada-kovrig-spavor-huawei-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/04/asia/china-canada-kovrig-spav... [1]: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/asia/canada-china-death-sentence-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/asia/canada-china-death-sente...

I would say only 1 Michael, The other one sold drugs in a country that specifically banned drugs

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

wendyshu 6y ago

Good point, committing a crime there is an especially bad idea.

poiuytrewqa 6y ago
Why there's a country where doing a crime is a good idea? I can recall that also US still have capital punishment for example
- justwalt 6y ago
  I’d imagine it’s far easier to be sentenced to death there as opposed to the US.
  - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
    To be honest, as European I think China and US are pretty similar in many ways (propaganda, law enforcement etc). So said each country has their own problem but if anybody focus more on resolving their internal problem before teaching everybody how to live would be better. In this forum is very hard to discuss anything serious that doesn't follow the prevalent opinion that you get down votes without reason.
    - kolanos 6y ago
      > To be honest, as European I think China and US are pretty similar in many ways (propaganda, law enforcement etc). As a non-European, non-American and non-Chinese I find this utterly confused line of thinking depressing. It is clear Europeans are subject to their own propaganda in this regard.
      - genoapol 6y ago
        Except the Chinese haven't acted like global parasites for the past few centuries like Europe and America.
        tristor 6y ago
        Even if you acknowledge that a global hegemony lead by the US currently exists, it certainly has not "for the past few centuries". Value judgements on whether that hegemony has been a net positive or net negative for the world, aside. I'd say your viewpoint of the world is not based on reality.
        IllogicalLogic 6y ago
        >Even if you acknowledge that a global hegemony lead by the US currently exists, it certainly has not "for the past few centuries". It stated "Europe & America" acted like global parasites. Just because we renamed part of the British Empire, it doesn't mean US history starts at Independence. The genocide that occurred on these continents (the Americas pre-independence) and the drugging and robbing of China for a century (post-independence) are some of the largest scale parasitic exercises in human history. Haven't even mentioned the 10-12 million enslaved...
        dang 6y ago
        We've banned this account for using HN primarily for political/ideological battle. Please don't do that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        kolanos 6y ago
        The U.S. (1865) and Britain (1833) abolished slavery before China did. > Slavery in China has taken various forms throughout history. Slavery was abolished as a legally recognized institution, including in a 1909 law fully enacted in 1910, although the practice continued until at least 1949. Illegal acts of forced labor and sexual slavery in China continue to occur in the twenty-first century, but those found guilty of such crimes are punished harshly. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_China
    - Karunamon 6y ago
      You're probably attracting downvotes because comparing China (show trials, double jeopardy, arbitrary and whim-based penalties) to the US when it comes to capital punishment is not even remotely accurate.
      - petre 6y ago
        The US has a police brutality problem, not a fair trial issue like China. And yes, long prison terms, a private for profit prison system and the death penalty in some states.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - TinkersW 6y ago
      You do understand that much of the news you read about the US is wildly exaggerated? Having traveled and met various young Europeans they were often suffering from amazingly ignorant ideas about life in the US(particularly the Germans). One couple was scared they might get shot while traveling along coastal California. Surprise, gun violence is not evenly distributed, most Americans don't encounter any gun violence. Police violence? Never seen any except on TV. Weird hu? Seems to be plenty of propaganda in your own news media, why do you think you are equating China & USA?
      - poiuytrewqa 6y ago
        The same problem you're referring to is also true for news regarding China. Have you ever thought about it? I've traveled for an extended time in both US and China and as you say you hardly get shot on a trip in California you also will not get arrested just for holding a foreign passport in Shanghai As far I'm concerned I felt much safer in China for many reason that I'm not here to explain.
alex_anglin 6y ago
Isn't the point of arbitrary arrest that the crime is figured out afterwards, if at all?
- 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
  Sort of. In many Asian countries, the rule of law is very weak or nonexistent. This means you will eventually come into contact with the police - usually for the purpose of extorting a bribe from you.
  - genoapol 6y ago
    Don't bring drugs into Asia and expect to have a good time. This is one area that being ignorant of history can get one executed.

mthoms 6y ago

This is incorrect. The two Michaels have been accused of spying. You're thinking of a third Canadian Robert Schellenberg. His punished was suddenly changed from 15 years in prison to a death sentence after a recent retrial. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53104303 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53104303 https://globalnews.ca/news/5257482/robert-schellenberg-death-sentence-appeal-hearing-china/ https://globalnews.ca/news/5257482/robert-schellenberg-death...

hungryhobo 6y ago
Ah my bad
nicholas73 6y ago
IIRC, Schellenberg requested re-trial to try to take advantage of the politics despite that a re-trial had the possibility of increasing the penalty to death penalty even without political motivation. That is, he gambled and lost.

kolanos 6y ago

It appears the two Michaels were suspected of espionage? [0] The Canadians sentenced to death for drug smuggling were different people. [1] [0]: https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/04/asia/china-canada-kovrig-spavor-huawei-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/04/asia/china-canada-kovrig-spav... [1]: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/asia/canada-china-death-sentence-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/asia/canada-china-death-sente...