6 ms·

Posted 10 mins ago and already downvoted. Do HN not have algos to stop this astroturfing behaviour? It’s becoming very prevalent for anything that criticises th

Posted 10 mins ago and already downvoted. Do HN not have algos to stop this astroturfing behaviour? It’s becoming very prevalent for anything that criticises the CCP.

tpmx 6y ago
It will be on the second or third page in a few minutes, after a few "trusted" HN members object. That's the extent of the "algorithm".
ciguy 6y ago
Yep, every time I post anything that mentions China I lose Karma, but I don't particularly care. Sometimes the comments start with 10+ upvotes and then suddenly a wave of downvotes comes. Most recently some very new accounts with mostly pro china submissions and comments began using my real name and posting it in comments, apparently thinking I would be scared of having my real name associated with anything critical of China.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Nginx487 6y ago
  Karma is just a counter in database. Hong Kongers do not afraid to face a death sentence for opposing the regime. Don't afraid to tell the truth, the worst may happen to you is a couple of downvotes by troll factory workers from Beijing.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
TimTheTinker 6y ago
Comments about voting are generally off-topic. Although if you have genuine concerns about astroturfing, I suggest emailing hn@ycombinator.com.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dicomdan 6y ago
This is by design, there's a lot of money in Chinese startups so it makes sense for YC to try and appease the regime. There are a couple superusers who will send this post to 3rd page in an hour or less. And everyone who speaks out gets a ban or warning from dang because of "rule violation". At the same time if you post anything, no matter how unsubstantiated, that criticizes US or liberal democracies or their tech companies it's going to be at the top for a long time.
- calibas 6y ago
  Wow, nobody's scolded you yet for breaking site guidelines. I'm amazed the subject of vote manipulation is so taboo on this site, especially when half the people here know how easy it is to do, given the proper resources.
- Nginx487 6y ago
  Any possible measures to oppose such a behavior? Chinese do not hesitate to use freedom of speech when it works for their interest, like vandalizing GitHub pages of regime critics, however Chinese platforms protected against any foreign meddling by design.
- h0p3 6y ago
  Hello. I am h0p3. I would love to hear more. I can prove I'm not a spook (though I am a crazy person). HMU if you ever need a friend to speak with.
- dang 6y ago
  This is inaccurate in every respect, including the bit about YC. Your comment breaks the site guidelines. Please read and follow them when posting here - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Perceptions about these things a massively distorted by cognitive bias, and I think that's what's happening here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
knolax 6y ago
[removed]
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  The paradox there is that ‘it takes one to know one’. Maybe the adage is wrong?
- calibas 6y ago
  These isn't something vague, we're talking about a specific authoritarian government who's already been caught manipulating social media. https://about.fb.com/news/2019/08/removing-cib-china/ https://about.fb.com/news/2019/08/removing-cib-china/
  - knolax 6y ago
    [removed]
    - calibas 6y ago
      We know manipulation is occurring, and to me that's an argument for greater transparency and openness so we can tell when it's happening. I don't agree with the "head in the sand" approach where manipulation is glossed over, ignored or rebranded under terms like "online reputation management". That being said, the "anyone who disagrees with me is a shill" attitude is just as poisonous to online discussions as the shilling itself.
- twirlock 6y ago
  If you can't see the astroturfing that happens everywhere online, you are the idiot who is incapable of comprehending things. I promise.
draw_down 6y ago
10 minutes? Luxury!
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
And tactic #2 I've noticed often used now, when they refer to themselves as "we" or occasionally "we in the west", as if they are westerners being self-critical. Yah, right.
twirlock 6y ago
That would risk interfering with the astroturfing that our own intelligentsia does here and across the entire internet. In fact, our own government probably has an interest in obscuring what they are doing in China -- the facial recognition and AI research. I suspect if people were to look at the contents of the TPP we "pulled out of," they might determine we just turned around and did all that stuff anyway. So yeah, I'm guessing it creates problems for astroturf world, i.e. hn, if they try to stop foreign interests from violating FTC laws because whatever measures taken would also stop Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and gestapoville, i.e. sv, from protecting the interests of our own intelligentsia who want to do exactly the same stuff here they are doing abroad.
monksy 6y ago
This happens in real life as well. There are propaganda efforts in foreign countries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsXtk7psUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsXtk7psUc
Nginx487 6y ago
HN is a very inviting platform for both Chinese and Russian state trolls. Don't be upset about their attention, truth is on your side. EDIT: here they are downvoting my comment to prove me wrong.

Posted 10 mins ago and already downvoted. Do HN not have algos to stop this astroturfing behaviour? It’s becoming very prevalent for anything that criticises the CCP.

tpmx 6y ago

It will be on the second or third page in a few minutes, after a few "trusted" HN members object. That's the extent of the "algorithm".

ciguy 6y ago

Yep, every time I post anything that mentions China I lose Karma, but I don't particularly care. Sometimes the comments start with 10+ upvotes and then suddenly a wave of downvotes comes. Most recently some very new accounts with mostly pro china submissions and comments began using my real name and posting it in comments, apparently thinking I would be scared of having my real name associated with anything critical of China.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Nginx487 6y ago
Karma is just a counter in database. Hong Kongers do not afraid to face a death sentence for opposing the regime. Don't afraid to tell the truth, the worst may happen to you is a couple of downvotes by troll factory workers from Beijing.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

TimTheTinker 6y ago

Comments about voting are generally off-topic. Although if you have genuine concerns about astroturfing, I suggest emailing hn@ycombinator.com.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dicomdan 6y ago

This is by design, there's a lot of money in Chinese startups so it makes sense for YC to try and appease the regime. There are a couple superusers who will send this post to 3rd page in an hour or less. And everyone who speaks out gets a ban or warning from dang because of "rule violation". At the same time if you post anything, no matter how unsubstantiated, that criticizes US or liberal democracies or their tech companies it's going to be at the top for a long time.

calibas 6y ago
Wow, nobody's scolded you yet for breaking site guidelines. I'm amazed the subject of vote manipulation is so taboo on this site, especially when half the people here know how easy it is to do, given the proper resources.
Nginx487 6y ago
Any possible measures to oppose such a behavior? Chinese do not hesitate to use freedom of speech when it works for their interest, like vandalizing GitHub pages of regime critics, however Chinese platforms protected against any foreign meddling by design.
h0p3 6y ago
Hello. I am h0p3. I would love to hear more. I can prove I'm not a spook (though I am a crazy person). HMU if you ever need a friend to speak with.
dang 6y ago
This is inaccurate in every respect, including the bit about YC. Your comment breaks the site guidelines. Please read and follow them when posting here - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Perceptions about these things a massively distorted by cognitive bias, and I think that's what's happening here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

knolax 6y ago

[removed]

runawaybottle 6y ago
The paradox there is that ‘it takes one to know one’. Maybe the adage is wrong?
calibas 6y ago
These isn't something vague, we're talking about a specific authoritarian government who's already been caught manipulating social media. https://about.fb.com/news/2019/08/removing-cib-china/ https://about.fb.com/news/2019/08/removing-cib-china/
- knolax 6y ago
  [removed]
  - calibas 6y ago
    We know manipulation is occurring, and to me that's an argument for greater transparency and openness so we can tell when it's happening. I don't agree with the "head in the sand" approach where manipulation is glossed over, ignored or rebranded under terms like "online reputation management". That being said, the "anyone who disagrees with me is a shill" attitude is just as poisonous to online discussions as the shilling itself.
twirlock 6y ago
If you can't see the astroturfing that happens everywhere online, you are the idiot who is incapable of comprehending things. I promise.

draw_down 6y ago

10 minutes? Luxury!

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

And tactic #2 I've noticed often used now, when they refer to themselves as "we" or occasionally "we in the west", as if they are westerners being self-critical. Yah, right.

twirlock 6y ago

That would risk interfering with the astroturfing that our own intelligentsia does here and across the entire internet. In fact, our own government probably has an interest in obscuring what they are doing in China -- the facial recognition and AI research. I suspect if people were to look at the contents of the TPP we "pulled out of," they might determine we just turned around and did all that stuff anyway. So yeah, I'm guessing it creates problems for astroturf world, i.e. hn, if they try to stop foreign interests from violating FTC laws because whatever measures taken would also stop Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and gestapoville, i.e. sv, from protecting the interests of our own intelligentsia who want to do exactly the same stuff here they are doing abroad.

monksy 6y ago

This happens in real life as well. There are propaganda efforts in foreign countries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsXtk7psUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsXtk7psUc

Nginx487 6y ago

HN is a very inviting platform for both Chinese and Russian state trolls. Don't be upset about their attention, truth is on your side. EDIT: here they are downvoting my comment to prove me wrong.