4 ms·

China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

12 points by Garbage 16y ago

briandear 16y ago
Not going to happen. A lack of IP and patent protections along with an educational culture that discourages innovation and "standing out" is a significant barrier to improvements. Plaigarism and outright theivery is commonplace among academics, students and researchers -- there's little incentive for scientific discovery. Also, the basic sciences are also lacking in many areas as well. Scientists know that basic science drives future innovation. Until China has a paradigm shift in IP attitudes, we'll continue to find that they will lag behind in innovation. I can't think of any significant Chinese scientific innovation in the recent past. (Despite patent filings to the contrary.) Much of their "research" is simply reverse engineering of others' work. I may be a little inflamatory with this comment, but I live in Shanghai and see the reality every day. For China to overtake the US in two years would be like suggesting that Google will declare bankruptcy next week. It's theoretically possible, but with a micro-probability.
salemh 16y ago
""But the potential for China to match American output in terms of sheer numbers in the near to medium term is clear."" "However the report points out that a growing volume of research publications does not necessarily mean in increase in quality." "A sociologist originally from Shanghai, Dr Cao told the BBC: "There are many millions of graduates but they are mandated to publish so the numbers are high. "It will take many years for some of the research to catch up to Western standards."" China has a quality issue in plagiarism (sometimes (many would argue)) in publishing / pushing and borrowing works or undiclosing proper citations for previous studies. Quality issues will hold back China, which is more an institution / systemic top-down problem (several HN discussions on this). http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1732000 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1732000 http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=china+plagarism+studies#hl=en&sa=X&ei=2n6RTefyL4_WtQOtvriyDg&ved=0CBkQvwUoAQ&q=china+plagiarism+studies&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=a445e974b90b3339 http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&#3...
bbgm 16y ago
Depends on how you look at it. The BGI (aka Beijing Genomics Institute) is already the worlds largest genome sequencing facility, and I know of many US researchers and companies that are essentially choosing to use the BGI for all their sequencing needs. While the US will remain the hub for the forefront of research, the Chinese are moving really fast in building facilities and training people. Almost everyone at the BGI is really young, but they will get older, gain more experience and train people. They are producing quality pipelines and algorithms and publishing some really good papers. One example, but I am sure there are other, similar, ones.

12 points by Garbage 16y ago

Not going to happen. A lack of IP and patent protections along with an educational culture that discourages innovation and "standing out" is a significant barrier to improvements. Plaigarism and outright theivery is commonplace among academics, students and researchers -- there's little incentive for scientific discovery. Also, the basic sciences are also lacking in many areas as well. Scientists know that basic science drives future innovation. Until China has a paradigm shift in IP attitudes, we'll continue to find that they will lag behind in innovation. I can't think of any significant Chinese scientific innovation in the recent past. (Despite patent filings to the contrary.) Much of their "research" is simply reverse engineering of others' work. I may be a little inflamatory with this comment, but I live in Shanghai and see the reality every day. For China to overtake the US in two years would be like suggesting that Google will declare bankruptcy next week. It's theoretically possible, but with a micro-probability.

salemh 16y ago

""But the potential for China to match American output in terms of sheer numbers in the near to medium term is clear."" "However the report points out that a growing volume of research publications does not necessarily mean in increase in quality." "A sociologist originally from Shanghai, Dr Cao told the BBC: "There are many millions of graduates but they are mandated to publish so the numbers are high. "It will take many years for some of the research to catch up to Western standards."" China has a quality issue in plagiarism (sometimes (many would argue)) in publishing / pushing and borrowing works or undiclosing proper citations for previous studies. Quality issues will hold back China, which is more an institution / systemic top-down problem (several HN discussions on this). http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1732000 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1732000 http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=china+plagarism+studies#hl=en&sa=X&ei=2n6RTefyL4_WtQOtvriyDg&ved=0CBkQvwUoAQ&q=china+plagiarism+studies&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=a445e974b90b3339 http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&#3...

bbgm 16y ago

Depends on how you look at it. The BGI (aka Beijing Genomics Institute) is already the worlds largest genome sequencing facility, and I know of many US researchers and companies that are essentially choosing to use the BGI for all their sequencing needs. While the US will remain the hub for the forefront of research, the Chinese are moving really fast in building facilities and training people. Almost everyone at the BGI is really young, but they will get older, gain more experience and train people. They are producing quality pipelines and algorithms and publishing some really good papers. One example, but I am sure there are other, similar, ones.