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I was in his boat. "Is this really going to matter to anyone?" It is comments like yours that made me realize that it does. I was wrong, he is wrong. While th

I was in his boat. "Is this really going to matter to anyone?" It is comments like yours that made me realize that it does. I was wrong, he is wrong. While the policy should happen whether or not he supports it. I think it does matter how he feels though. He should feel that these words shouldn't be used in this context. Because, we're not going to solve non-whites being second class if a white people can't see the pain cause by the use of the terms. There are so many bigger problems that should be easier to see and acknowledge that seem to just be over looked, because we don't see the pain. I am with you SambalOelek. I may not understand everything you and your ancestors have gone through so forgive me when I'm ignorant and tell me about it. That said I don't want you or random people like you to have to do all the work, so I'm reading. https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/black-lives-matter https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/black-lives-matter

hpcimg 6y ago
I’m a black engineer and I don’t think this will help racism one bit.
- SambalOelek 6y ago
  Do you think it'll hurt?
  - quonn 6y ago
    Absolutely, it will. The reason for that is that we will loose the support of a (large?) part of society who would otherwise help the cause.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
      Yeah, I don't buy that one bit. If someone is all up in arms over some simple term changes like this, you somehow think they'll be an ally and supporter when it comes to more difficult reforms of structural racism?
      - f1refly 6y ago
        It might mean they support things that might actually help the cause and not just virtue signalling that just annoys everybody and helps noone
        jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
        I don't believe it's virtue signaling and I do believe it substantially helps. Does it solve everything in one step? No. Does it show that the window of acceptability is shifting? Yes.
        f1refly 6y ago
        How exactly does it help "substantially"? Please elaborate on any concrete problems solved by changing long-established terminology in technical context that describe the relationship between things in an objectively correct way.
      - quonn 6y ago
        Yes. There is a lot of (in my opinion justified) resistance against the policing of language. There is no reason to assume those who oppose these changes would also oppose certain meaningful structural changes. (For example, I strongly oppose all of those trends and I think of myself as progressive and I will resist the destruction of reasonable progressive politics in Europe by what I believe to be irrational, aggressive ideas as long as possible.) And just to be clear: It‘s fine to use primary and replica. There‘s no problem with the decision itself. The problem is the idea that caused this change and the people in this thread who just stop short of calling someone a racist, because he would reject the idea that the terminology was racist in the first place. edit: I‘ve not seen such fluctuating votes in a long time if ever than in this thread.That shows how divisive this topic is. So I‘ll call it a day. As I said elsewhere, I can wait 30 years or maybe 50 and see how things played out. But one thing is for sure, these ideas (that is: the current approach) will eventually disappear by themselves without leaving even a trace.
  - concordDance 6y ago
    It portrays black people as highly sensitive and easily triggered. I wouldn't want to hire someone highly sensitive (thankfully I know that most black software devs don't care). So yes, it's harmful.
- dannypgh 6y ago
  I'm a black engineer who disagrees with you. I appreciate seeing colleagues and peers make an effort, however small, however symbolic, and that helps motivate me to ignore bullshit and continue working in a team and company where i'm a visibly underrepresented historically oppressed minority. That in turn leads to others seeing me and - people have literally told me this, this isn't me guessing the impact of coming to work - feel like this is a place where they too may be able to survive if not thrive. This change barely moves the needle on Black representation in tech, but I think it does, however little. Improving Black representation in tech /barely/ moves the needle on racism, but I too think it does, however little (these are good jobs and I know it's helped me and my family close some of the racial wealth gap).
miked85 6y ago
> I was in his boat. Slaves were brought to America on a boat. I am sure you offended many with this insensitive term.
SambalOelek 6y ago
Thank you for your comments. My point about "it doesn't matter how you feel" is inspired by comments like "political correctness culture is out of control". So many times, people are concerned by their personal freedom and not their responsibility to humanity. Being asked not to use a word is not severely limiting your world. The trauma of limiting your vocabulary is not comparable to the ideas they evoke.
- hpcimg 6y ago
  So you are now flat out saying you don’t want people to use the word period. This is further than just removing it from the kernel. This is the future ladies and gentlemen. Let’s take a look at real racism, and police brutality. I’d say you are pretty privileged if your biggest worry is people using White list and black list in the Linux kernel.

hpcimg 6y ago

I’m a black engineer and I don’t think this will help racism one bit.

SambalOelek 6y ago
Do you think it'll hurt?
- quonn 6y ago
  Absolutely, it will. The reason for that is that we will loose the support of a (large?) part of society who would otherwise help the cause.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
    Yeah, I don't buy that one bit. If someone is all up in arms over some simple term changes like this, you somehow think they'll be an ally and supporter when it comes to more difficult reforms of structural racism?
    - f1refly 6y ago
      It might mean they support things that might actually help the cause and not just virtue signalling that just annoys everybody and helps noone
      - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
        I don't believe it's virtue signaling and I do believe it substantially helps. Does it solve everything in one step? No. Does it show that the window of acceptability is shifting? Yes.
        f1refly 6y ago
        How exactly does it help "substantially"? Please elaborate on any concrete problems solved by changing long-established terminology in technical context that describe the relationship between things in an objectively correct way.
    - quonn 6y ago
      Yes. There is a lot of (in my opinion justified) resistance against the policing of language. There is no reason to assume those who oppose these changes would also oppose certain meaningful structural changes. (For example, I strongly oppose all of those trends and I think of myself as progressive and I will resist the destruction of reasonable progressive politics in Europe by what I believe to be irrational, aggressive ideas as long as possible.) And just to be clear: It‘s fine to use primary and replica. There‘s no problem with the decision itself. The problem is the idea that caused this change and the people in this thread who just stop short of calling someone a racist, because he would reject the idea that the terminology was racist in the first place. edit: I‘ve not seen such fluctuating votes in a long time if ever than in this thread.That shows how divisive this topic is. So I‘ll call it a day. As I said elsewhere, I can wait 30 years or maybe 50 and see how things played out. But one thing is for sure, these ideas (that is: the current approach) will eventually disappear by themselves without leaving even a trace.
- concordDance 6y ago
  It portrays black people as highly sensitive and easily triggered. I wouldn't want to hire someone highly sensitive (thankfully I know that most black software devs don't care). So yes, it's harmful.
dannypgh 6y ago
I'm a black engineer who disagrees with you. I appreciate seeing colleagues and peers make an effort, however small, however symbolic, and that helps motivate me to ignore bullshit and continue working in a team and company where i'm a visibly underrepresented historically oppressed minority. That in turn leads to others seeing me and - people have literally told me this, this isn't me guessing the impact of coming to work - feel like this is a place where they too may be able to survive if not thrive. This change barely moves the needle on Black representation in tech, but I think it does, however little. Improving Black representation in tech /barely/ moves the needle on racism, but I too think it does, however little (these are good jobs and I know it's helped me and my family close some of the racial wealth gap).

miked85 6y ago

> I was in his boat. Slaves were brought to America on a boat. I am sure you offended many with this insensitive term.

SambalOelek 6y ago

Thank you for your comments. My point about "it doesn't matter how you feel" is inspired by comments like "political correctness culture is out of control". So many times, people are concerned by their personal freedom and not their responsibility to humanity. Being asked not to use a word is not severely limiting your world. The trauma of limiting your vocabulary is not comparable to the ideas they evoke.

hpcimg 6y ago
So you are now flat out saying you don’t want people to use the word period. This is further than just removing it from the kernel. This is the future ladies and gentlemen. Let’s take a look at real racism, and police brutality. I’d say you are pretty privileged if your biggest worry is people using White list and black list in the Linux kernel.