4 ms·

While everyone should say: Can we end the extreme wealth disparity where millions of people are couple pay checks from being homeless. It's ironic, since decad

by f6v 6y ago

While everyone should say: Can we end the extreme wealth disparity where millions of people are couple pay checks from being homeless. It's ironic, since decades of fighting communists in the USA rendered any class-based rhetoric a taboo.

collyw 6y ago
As someone from a "very white" country wealth disparity seems to exist regardless of race.
- f6v 6y ago
  Yes, so here's a crazy idea: maybe, just maybe, there're systematic problems in the society, other than monuments and words.
  - bsaul 6y ago
    here's an even crazier idea : maybe inequality is part of natural behavior of every single organisation, from animals to vegetables, to cells. I'm not saying it's a good thing, just that abolishing inequalities is a phenomenaly ambitious goal which hasn't even been proved feasible.
    - f6v 6y ago
      We can practice reductio ad absurdum all we want. However, it seems that inequality is taken to the extreme in some parts of the world.
- qznc 6y ago
  The distinction is just wording: > If we find that much of the overrepresentation of blacks in the criminal justice system is because black people are often poor and poor people often get sucked into the system, should we describe this as “the problem isn’t racism in the criminal justice system, it’s poverty” or as “the problem is racism in the criminal justice system, as manifested through poverty”? – Scott Alexander https://web.archive.org/web/20200523051001/https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/03/framing-for-light-instead-of-heat/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200523051001/https://slatestar...
  - saabaa 6y ago
    No, he's just playing word games. That doesn't mean the argument is one of semantics. If the problem is too much poverty, then the solution is to reduce poverty. If the problem is too much racism, then the solution is to reduce racism. The greedy rich people's corporate media pushes the racism narrative to keep the focus away from the primary problem because fixing poverty might cost them something. All the well meaning people pushing the racism narrative are doing their work. Pawns in the game.
weego 6y ago
You're still missing the point. A mother whose son went to get candy and ended up never coming home after being gunned down by the police doesn't give a fuck about white tech elite hand-wringing and trying to rewrite history and does't give a fuck about hand-wringing over salaries. She wants it to have never happened, she wants justice, her community wants to be able to call the police in an emergency and be sure one of their own won't get murdered and they want equality in mind, not just on paper. What good is more money right now when walking in a 'good' neighbourhood you just bought into, or driving a nice car you just bought with your salary can still get you murdered by the police just for being black. White people have lost their damn minds. It's not about you and how awful you feel your ancestors behaved. They murder men, women and children alike with impunity.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- saabaa 6y ago
  1. There are hundreds of millions of guns and people in America. 2. Police officers help black (and white) people millions of times per year. 3. Police officers murder black (and white) people at most dozens of times per year. 4. Black criminals murder thousands of black people per year. Any black person who is more afraid of being murdered by a police officer than a black criminal is being highly irrational. Any person that can't accept the reality that a small number of murders of black (and white) people by police are inevitable in such a big and well armed country is being highly irrational. A totally reasonable goal is to try to reduce the number of murders as much as possible, which is something that no one disagrees with. The idea that police are murdering in huge numbers, or that the problem is growing precipitously, is simply a result of people unable to overcome selection bias. They're watching a handful of videos and then exaggerating the problem in their minds.
- f6v 6y ago
  That is why economic policies aren't written by someone who's emotionally attached to the described event. There's probably no doubt that providing black people with education, universal healthcare and well-paid jobs will result in less violence and prejudice. A death is a tragedy to someone, but the society can't miss forest for the trees, as somebody already mentioned here. P.S. I'm not at all familiar with US mindset, but isn't making generalisations based on race("White people have lost their minds") racist as well?
goodluckchuck 6y ago
Scarcity is a real issue. What’s the point of redistributing wealth when some will be more productive and then live within their means, while others won’t and will reproduce until they can’t provide for their children. It may not be the same people afterwards, but it’d be the same result. So how would that be any more fair or facilitate prosperity any more than what we’re doing now?
- f6v 6y ago
  That's assuming that not having to struggle pay check to pay check won't create more opportunities for people to study and create value. Just look at countries like Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Norway, Austria etc.
  - collyw 6y ago
    I worked for a German company in Austria in my early 20's. I lived more or less pay check to pay check (also happened to be they best years of my life). Sine then I have worked reasonably hard, and created a career for myself. I don't enjoy my work like I did in those days. I am not rich, but I don't worry about money. What would you suggest gets done?
    - f6v 6y ago
      What you describe is anecdotal. As my German teacher once said: "If you're homeless in Germany, you really want to be homeless". I've never been to US, but watching "Invisible People" on YouTube helps to paint a picture.

by f6v 6y ago

collyw 6y ago

As someone from a "very white" country wealth disparity seems to exist regardless of race.

f6v 6y ago
Yes, so here's a crazy idea: maybe, just maybe, there're systematic problems in the society, other than monuments and words.
- bsaul 6y ago
  here's an even crazier idea : maybe inequality is part of natural behavior of every single organisation, from animals to vegetables, to cells. I'm not saying it's a good thing, just that abolishing inequalities is a phenomenaly ambitious goal which hasn't even been proved feasible.
  - f6v 6y ago
    We can practice reductio ad absurdum all we want. However, it seems that inequality is taken to the extreme in some parts of the world.
qznc 6y ago
The distinction is just wording: > If we find that much of the overrepresentation of blacks in the criminal justice system is because black people are often poor and poor people often get sucked into the system, should we describe this as “the problem isn’t racism in the criminal justice system, it’s poverty” or as “the problem is racism in the criminal justice system, as manifested through poverty”? – Scott Alexander https://web.archive.org/web/20200523051001/https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/03/framing-for-light-instead-of-heat/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200523051001/https://slatestar...
- saabaa 6y ago
  No, he's just playing word games. That doesn't mean the argument is one of semantics. If the problem is too much poverty, then the solution is to reduce poverty. If the problem is too much racism, then the solution is to reduce racism. The greedy rich people's corporate media pushes the racism narrative to keep the focus away from the primary problem because fixing poverty might cost them something. All the well meaning people pushing the racism narrative are doing their work. Pawns in the game.

weego 6y ago

You're still missing the point. A mother whose son went to get candy and ended up never coming home after being gunned down by the police doesn't give a fuck about white tech elite hand-wringing and trying to rewrite history and does't give a fuck about hand-wringing over salaries. She wants it to have never happened, she wants justice, her community wants to be able to call the police in an emergency and be sure one of their own won't get murdered and they want equality in mind, not just on paper. What good is more money right now when walking in a 'good' neighbourhood you just bought into, or driving a nice car you just bought with your salary can still get you murdered by the police just for being black. White people have lost their damn minds. It's not about you and how awful you feel your ancestors behaved. They murder men, women and children alike with impunity.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
saabaa 6y ago
1. There are hundreds of millions of guns and people in America. 2. Police officers help black (and white) people millions of times per year. 3. Police officers murder black (and white) people at most dozens of times per year. 4. Black criminals murder thousands of black people per year. Any black person who is more afraid of being murdered by a police officer than a black criminal is being highly irrational. Any person that can't accept the reality that a small number of murders of black (and white) people by police are inevitable in such a big and well armed country is being highly irrational. A totally reasonable goal is to try to reduce the number of murders as much as possible, which is something that no one disagrees with. The idea that police are murdering in huge numbers, or that the problem is growing precipitously, is simply a result of people unable to overcome selection bias. They're watching a handful of videos and then exaggerating the problem in their minds.
f6v 6y ago
That is why economic policies aren't written by someone who's emotionally attached to the described event. There's probably no doubt that providing black people with education, universal healthcare and well-paid jobs will result in less violence and prejudice. A death is a tragedy to someone, but the society can't miss forest for the trees, as somebody already mentioned here. P.S. I'm not at all familiar with US mindset, but isn't making generalisations based on race("White people have lost their minds") racist as well?

goodluckchuck 6y ago

Scarcity is a real issue. What’s the point of redistributing wealth when some will be more productive and then live within their means, while others won’t and will reproduce until they can’t provide for their children. It may not be the same people afterwards, but it’d be the same result. So how would that be any more fair or facilitate prosperity any more than what we’re doing now?

f6v 6y ago
That's assuming that not having to struggle pay check to pay check won't create more opportunities for people to study and create value. Just look at countries like Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Norway, Austria etc.
- collyw 6y ago
  I worked for a German company in Austria in my early 20's. I lived more or less pay check to pay check (also happened to be they best years of my life). Sine then I have worked reasonably hard, and created a career for myself. I don't enjoy my work like I did in those days. I am not rich, but I don't worry about money. What would you suggest gets done?
  - f6v 6y ago
    What you describe is anecdotal. As my German teacher once said: "If you're homeless in Germany, you really want to be homeless". I've never been to US, but watching "Invisible People" on YouTube helps to paint a picture.