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> Private industry should not be in the job of providing a social safety net. Someone should. Instead of taxing industry, and transferring wealth to poor, its

> Private industry should not be in the job of providing a social safety net. Someone should. Instead of taxing industry, and transferring wealth to poor, its best way to increase wages for the bottom 20%. They will spend that and increase economic activities. > I noticed that you called out people making $500K instead of $200K. “Tax the rich” often translates to “tax people who make more than I do. I didn't call anyone, nor I said: "tax people who make more than I do". I used to work in silicon valley. Now a business owner. I said it's pathetic that people (like me) who make $500k/year pay less than $75k in federal taxes.

scarface74 6y ago
Someone should. Instead of taxing industry, and transferring wealth to poor, Increasing the minimum wage and paying someone more than their market value is a tax. Increasing minimum wage is a one size fits all solution. “A livable wage” doesn’t take into account the different needs of my teenager living at home flipping burgers for some pocket change and that same burger flipper standing beside him who is a single mom of three. The EITC does take that into account.
- N1H1L 6y ago
  And letting society pick up the tab through food stamps is a tax on the rest of us too.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    As would be any combination of increased pricing if minimum wage was increased, increased unemployment because automation becomes much more attractive, decreased earnings affecting stock prices which affect public pensions which would cause an increase in taxes to make up the shortfall. If we increased the EITC, and raised taxes to fund it, we wouldn’t have to worry about food stamps.
    - dlp211 6y ago
      Source that a higher minimum wage leads to those undesired outcomes. My best reading of research into the effects of minimum wage increases is that it doesn't lead to higher unemployment, but may result in reduced hours, which is a different kind of raise.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Reduced hours still doesn’t bring in more money if they need it. But if you can trade automation or outsourcing for human labor, where is the tipping point where it just makes sense to outsource?
        dlp211 6y ago
        Reduced hours leads to either the ability to work more jobs, or achieve more education, or achieve more leisure, or some other alternative. In all cases, you are better off if you make the same amount of money and work fewer hours. Automation is going to happen whether min wage is $8 or $12 or $15, it is just an inevitability. But, the US has never had high unemployment due to technology making us more productive. Those who worked certain jobs would have to find different work, but that doesn't mean that there won't be work for them.
        scarface74 6y ago
        How many people working minimum wage jobs can afford “leisure”? No other time in history has technology taking out whole industries. Tesla is worth more than any of the car makers and employs many fewer people. The five major tech companies have fewer workers and paying them more. The US has never seen such income disparity as it sees now. Also when producing physical goods, the more goods you produce, the more people you need to hire. Microsoft doesn’t need to hire more people when it sells more copies of Office or Windows, Neither does Google need to hire more people to meet demand. Apple needs to hire more people to meet demand of hardware products - but those are all in China. Amazon is the only company in Big Tech that actually hires more Americans when demand increases.
smabie 6y ago
I mean, you're always welcome to pay more. And yet, even people who want higher taxes never actually decide to pay more voluntarily.
- scarface74 6y ago
  That’s kind of my point. Everyone who says “tax the rich” always define the rich as people who make more than they do.
- newhotelowner 6y ago
  In that case, why not get rid of taxes all together. Only pay if you feel like it.
- dlp211 6y ago
  That's just optimal game theory at play. Higher taxes on the wealthy have literally no effect in the long term on there ability to purchase goods because they are only bidding against other wealthy people who are subject to the same taxes.
opo 6y ago
>...I said it's pathetic that people (like me) who make $500k/year pay less than $75k in federal taxes. How does someone making $500k pay less than $75k in federal taxes?

scarface74 6y ago

Someone should. Instead of taxing industry, and transferring wealth to poor, Increasing the minimum wage and paying someone more than their market value is a tax. Increasing minimum wage is a one size fits all solution. “A livable wage” doesn’t take into account the different needs of my teenager living at home flipping burgers for some pocket change and that same burger flipper standing beside him who is a single mom of three. The EITC does take that into account.

N1H1L 6y ago
And letting society pick up the tab through food stamps is a tax on the rest of us too.
- scarface74 6y ago
  As would be any combination of increased pricing if minimum wage was increased, increased unemployment because automation becomes much more attractive, decreased earnings affecting stock prices which affect public pensions which would cause an increase in taxes to make up the shortfall. If we increased the EITC, and raised taxes to fund it, we wouldn’t have to worry about food stamps.
  - dlp211 6y ago
    Source that a higher minimum wage leads to those undesired outcomes. My best reading of research into the effects of minimum wage increases is that it doesn't lead to higher unemployment, but may result in reduced hours, which is a different kind of raise.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Reduced hours still doesn’t bring in more money if they need it. But if you can trade automation or outsourcing for human labor, where is the tipping point where it just makes sense to outsource?
      - dlp211 6y ago
        Reduced hours leads to either the ability to work more jobs, or achieve more education, or achieve more leisure, or some other alternative. In all cases, you are better off if you make the same amount of money and work fewer hours. Automation is going to happen whether min wage is $8 or $12 or $15, it is just an inevitability. But, the US has never had high unemployment due to technology making us more productive. Those who worked certain jobs would have to find different work, but that doesn't mean that there won't be work for them.
        scarface74 6y ago
        How many people working minimum wage jobs can afford “leisure”? No other time in history has technology taking out whole industries. Tesla is worth more than any of the car makers and employs many fewer people. The five major tech companies have fewer workers and paying them more. The US has never seen such income disparity as it sees now. Also when producing physical goods, the more goods you produce, the more people you need to hire. Microsoft doesn’t need to hire more people when it sells more copies of Office or Windows, Neither does Google need to hire more people to meet demand. Apple needs to hire more people to meet demand of hardware products - but those are all in China. Amazon is the only company in Big Tech that actually hires more Americans when demand increases.

smabie 6y ago

I mean, you're always welcome to pay more. And yet, even people who want higher taxes never actually decide to pay more voluntarily.

scarface74 6y ago
That’s kind of my point. Everyone who says “tax the rich” always define the rich as people who make more than they do.
newhotelowner 6y ago
In that case, why not get rid of taxes all together. Only pay if you feel like it.
dlp211 6y ago
That's just optimal game theory at play. Higher taxes on the wealthy have literally no effect in the long term on there ability to purchase goods because they are only bidding against other wealthy people who are subject to the same taxes.

opo 6y ago

>...I said it's pathetic that people (like me) who make $500k/year pay less than $75k in federal taxes. How does someone making $500k pay less than $75k in federal taxes?