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Problem is, the black people who call this out are "not the right black people" and the white people who call it out often lose their jobs. Do society a favour

Problem is, the black people who call this out are "not the right black people" and the white people who call it out often lose their jobs. Do society a favour and get this cancer out of your HR departments, and start saying no while you still can; because if you wait long enough, all of the activism will be fake, because it's cheaper and you're not allowed to notice the difference.

f6v 6y ago
Why though? It makes people doing it feel better and requires little effort. Anything else other than virtue signaling is hard and expensive.
- torgian 6y ago
  It's virtue signaling. It does nothing, and 99% of the people aren't going to see these terms and racially charged.
  - dannypgh 6y ago
    I appreciate knowing my colleagues have virtues. How is that doing nothing?
    - yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
      Do you think moral posturing as a means to gaining political and/or social capital when nothing is at stake is of any real value? Because that’s what virtue signalling is, and that’s what most people fighting the good fight in these comments are doing.
      - dannypgh 6y ago
        I don't appreciate my psychological safety being referred to as "nothing... at stake... of any real value." I know that's probably not what you intended, but I've reread it several times and that's how I'm interpreting it each time. I think this disconnect between people -- a modicum of safety in a world that doesn't value our lives is seen as huge and worthwhile by some, but trivial and unimportant by others.
        yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
        I appreciate you trying to clarify. Whether or not that's a correct interpretation of what I wrote depends on why you feel your "psychological safety" is at risk. If you are a black person and the common use of the word "blacklist" is an affront to your psychological safety, then I would find that curious and I would ask why it is you feel that way. From what other black people in this thread have written, that doesn't appear to be the common case. Amusingly, the people fighting the good fight in the comments here (at least, the last time I checked) seem to have flatly ignored the people who essentially say "I am black. Squabbling about words in Linux does nothing in the fight against slavery. Why won't white people listen to us." If that isn't your situation and you are being offended on behalf of other people, then I think you're standing on shaky moral ground. To clarify, when I said "nothing… at stake… of any real value", I was referring to the common modern trend of slacktivism.
        dannypgh 6y ago
        I am Black. I'm not ignoring the other Black people posting, I'm just letting the audience know they don't speak for all of us. We are not a monolith. I don't particularly care about blacklist/whitelist (as there's a clearer connection to light) but a lot of the defenses against even considering that change sound racist as fuck to me -- there's lots of people who explicitly argue the status quo is OK and that it couldn't be worth any changes here. Master/slave, however, does bother me. It's led to one too many conversations where people need to, or so, say things like "the slave isn't keeping up with the master" or "the master should detect that and kill the slave" or "we should add more slaves" and those words are grating to me. I don't want to say them, and if a coworker is saying them sometimes I'm not sure if they're enjoying getting to use those words a little too much. I also want to add, none of this is as important to me as meaningful reparations for slavery and institutionalized racism. But the fact that other things are more important doesn't mean this isn't important. If I meet someone who is in a position to significantly advance reparations or rename these tech terms, I'll be talking with them about the former, not the latter. But most people are not in a position to move the needle on both of these issues.
        6y ago
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  > "It makes people doing it feel better and requires little effort." Security theater often makes people feel better and requires little effort. Should we embrace security theater instead of improving security?
Chris2048 6y ago
The "right black people" are usually white progressives speaking on their behalf: https://quillette.com/2018/05/14/the-racism-treadmill/ https://quillette.com/2018/05/14/the-racism-treadmill/

f6v 6y ago

Why though? It makes people doing it feel better and requires little effort. Anything else other than virtue signaling is hard and expensive.

torgian 6y ago
It's virtue signaling. It does nothing, and 99% of the people aren't going to see these terms and racially charged.
- dannypgh 6y ago
  I appreciate knowing my colleagues have virtues. How is that doing nothing?
  - yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
    Do you think moral posturing as a means to gaining political and/or social capital when nothing is at stake is of any real value? Because that’s what virtue signalling is, and that’s what most people fighting the good fight in these comments are doing.
    - dannypgh 6y ago
      I don't appreciate my psychological safety being referred to as "nothing... at stake... of any real value." I know that's probably not what you intended, but I've reread it several times and that's how I'm interpreting it each time. I think this disconnect between people -- a modicum of safety in a world that doesn't value our lives is seen as huge and worthwhile by some, but trivial and unimportant by others.
      - yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
        I appreciate you trying to clarify. Whether or not that's a correct interpretation of what I wrote depends on why you feel your "psychological safety" is at risk. If you are a black person and the common use of the word "blacklist" is an affront to your psychological safety, then I would find that curious and I would ask why it is you feel that way. From what other black people in this thread have written, that doesn't appear to be the common case. Amusingly, the people fighting the good fight in the comments here (at least, the last time I checked) seem to have flatly ignored the people who essentially say "I am black. Squabbling about words in Linux does nothing in the fight against slavery. Why won't white people listen to us." If that isn't your situation and you are being offended on behalf of other people, then I think you're standing on shaky moral ground. To clarify, when I said "nothing… at stake… of any real value", I was referring to the common modern trend of slacktivism.
        dannypgh 6y ago
        I am Black. I'm not ignoring the other Black people posting, I'm just letting the audience know they don't speak for all of us. We are not a monolith. I don't particularly care about blacklist/whitelist (as there's a clearer connection to light) but a lot of the defenses against even considering that change sound racist as fuck to me -- there's lots of people who explicitly argue the status quo is OK and that it couldn't be worth any changes here. Master/slave, however, does bother me. It's led to one too many conversations where people need to, or so, say things like "the slave isn't keeping up with the master" or "the master should detect that and kill the slave" or "we should add more slaves" and those words are grating to me. I don't want to say them, and if a coworker is saying them sometimes I'm not sure if they're enjoying getting to use those words a little too much. I also want to add, none of this is as important to me as meaningful reparations for slavery and institutionalized racism. But the fact that other things are more important doesn't mean this isn't important. If I meet someone who is in a position to significantly advance reparations or rename these tech terms, I'll be talking with them about the former, not the latter. But most people are not in a position to move the needle on both of these issues.
        6y ago
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
> "It makes people doing it feel better and requires little effort." Security theater often makes people feel better and requires little effort. Should we embrace security theater instead of improving security?

Chris2048 6y ago

The "right black people" are usually white progressives speaking on their behalf: https://quillette.com/2018/05/14/the-racism-treadmill/ https://quillette.com/2018/05/14/the-racism-treadmill/