4 ms·

Overstating requisites, or asking for far too many requisites for a particular job and then settling for less has been a widespread practice since for as long a

Overstating requisites, or asking for far too many requisites for a particular job and then settling for less has been a widespread practice since for as long as I can remember in technology fields. When I was younger, I never thought of it as a bad thing, since it scared away those who weren't bold enough to apply for the job - ultimately reducing the competition for the jobs that I've applied for. Over the past 3 decades, I've never met the qualifications for any job that I've landed, and I always tell others to apply for tech jobs even if they only meet a small number of the requisites for this same reason. Most are surprised to see how many times they get contacted for an interview. Of course, this practice is slowly changing today since many talented applicants don't feel comfortable enough to apply, which ultimately equates to lost opportunity for the organization. For example, an HR manager recently told me that she doesn't put the word "rockstar" on developer job ads anymore because HR studies show that the term turns off the female and Gen-Z demographics.

gridlockd 6y ago
This is definitely one of the biggest things holding back female applicants, as they are statistically more likely to have imposter syndrome. However, it holds back a lot of people who simply do not know that job descriptions are bullshit. Being bold is one thing, being a compulsive bullshitter is another. You probably do not want the latter on the team, unless you work at IBM specifically.
- jasoneckert 6y ago
  Ugh. Compulsive bullshitters are so very common (and draining) in the tech industry. Over the past 2 years, one of them has cost our company a lot of money and lost revenue. Hopefully better HR practices can help curb this problem in the future.
janoc 6y ago
Well, seriously, if some HR drone puts "rockstar", "full-stack" or similar buzzword on the job posting, it tells me one thing - the HR person is incompetent, most likely has no idea what the real needs of the company are and is filling the job advert with meaningless filler, especially since at one point everyone wanted only "rockstar" developers. And if it is a company itself advertising like this, that reeks of the "bro" culture, crazy hours and similar problems. That's pretty big red flag for me and I am certainly neither female nor Gen-Z (up in my mid-40s now).
- gruez 6y ago
  >Well, seriously, if some HR drone puts "rockstar", "full-stack" or similar buzzword "full-stack" is a buzzword now? How else would you describe a role where you'll be doing backend and frontend?
  - Brian_K_White 6y ago
    It can be both accurate and a buzzword. What is so hard to believe about a buzzword that started out as a merely descriptive term? It's definitely an over-used and mis-used term now. A dog whistle.
  - EliRivers 6y ago
    Full-stack always has been a buzzword. It means everything and nothing. I've seen full-stack mean "assembly code to screen pixel", I've seen it mean LAMP, I've seen it mean three or four specific technologies that the candidate is presumably meant to guess are the technologies being used.
    - 0xfffafaCrash 6y ago
      Almost no full stack developers are expected to work with assembly (unless explicitly stated) so that seems more than a little hyperbolic. Full-stack in its common usage doesn't mean "everything and nothing." People might disagree about where the exact boundaries are, but there are a lot of people who definitely don't count by any definition so it does convey information. Those who only work with HTML & CSS & client-side javascript are definitely not doing full-stack development. Nor or those doing purely server-side work, database administration, cloud computing, systems/network programming, etc. that never involves a UI with user interaction of any kind. That's quite a lot of people who would immediately understand that they don't meet the qualifications for a position that requires experience as a full stack developer.
      - EliRivers 6y ago
        there are a lot of people who definitely don't count by any definition That is the typical answer I see; the opinion of anyone who disagrees with your opinion is inherently invalid. YOU know what "full stack" means, anyone who thinks it's something else is wrong.
tzs 6y ago
> When I was younger, I never thought of it as a bad thing, since it scared away those who weren't bold enough to apply for the job - ultimately reducing the competition for the jobs that I've applied for. Sometimes it reduces it too far, though, and the company fails to fill the position. I did not apply to a job that seemed otherwise an ideal fit because they wanted a master's degree in CS, and my degree was a mere bachelor's in mathematics from Caltech. (At the time, Caltech's CS program only offered graduate degrees. They had all the usual undergraduate CS courses, which I had taken, but simply had not yet set up a degree program for the bachelor's so all us would-be CS majors actually got our degrees in something else. Usually math or physics or EE). Six months later they were still looking and a headhunter sent them my resume. I was quickly hired. By asking for more than they actually needed, the position went unfilled for at least 6 extra months and they had to pay a headhunter 10% of my salary.

gridlockd 6y ago

This is definitely one of the biggest things holding back female applicants, as they are statistically more likely to have imposter syndrome. However, it holds back a lot of people who simply do not know that job descriptions are bullshit. Being bold is one thing, being a compulsive bullshitter is another. You probably do not want the latter on the team, unless you work at IBM specifically.

jasoneckert 6y ago
Ugh. Compulsive bullshitters are so very common (and draining) in the tech industry. Over the past 2 years, one of them has cost our company a lot of money and lost revenue. Hopefully better HR practices can help curb this problem in the future.

janoc 6y ago

Well, seriously, if some HR drone puts "rockstar", "full-stack" or similar buzzword on the job posting, it tells me one thing - the HR person is incompetent, most likely has no idea what the real needs of the company are and is filling the job advert with meaningless filler, especially since at one point everyone wanted only "rockstar" developers. And if it is a company itself advertising like this, that reeks of the "bro" culture, crazy hours and similar problems. That's pretty big red flag for me and I am certainly neither female nor Gen-Z (up in my mid-40s now).

gruez 6y ago
>Well, seriously, if some HR drone puts "rockstar", "full-stack" or similar buzzword "full-stack" is a buzzword now? How else would you describe a role where you'll be doing backend and frontend?
- Brian_K_White 6y ago
  It can be both accurate and a buzzword. What is so hard to believe about a buzzword that started out as a merely descriptive term? It's definitely an over-used and mis-used term now. A dog whistle.
- EliRivers 6y ago
  Full-stack always has been a buzzword. It means everything and nothing. I've seen full-stack mean "assembly code to screen pixel", I've seen it mean LAMP, I've seen it mean three or four specific technologies that the candidate is presumably meant to guess are the technologies being used.
  - 0xfffafaCrash 6y ago
    Almost no full stack developers are expected to work with assembly (unless explicitly stated) so that seems more than a little hyperbolic. Full-stack in its common usage doesn't mean "everything and nothing." People might disagree about where the exact boundaries are, but there are a lot of people who definitely don't count by any definition so it does convey information. Those who only work with HTML & CSS & client-side javascript are definitely not doing full-stack development. Nor or those doing purely server-side work, database administration, cloud computing, systems/network programming, etc. that never involves a UI with user interaction of any kind. That's quite a lot of people who would immediately understand that they don't meet the qualifications for a position that requires experience as a full stack developer.
    - EliRivers 6y ago
      there are a lot of people who definitely don't count by any definition That is the typical answer I see; the opinion of anyone who disagrees with your opinion is inherently invalid. YOU know what "full stack" means, anyone who thinks it's something else is wrong.

tzs 6y ago

> When I was younger, I never thought of it as a bad thing, since it scared away those who weren't bold enough to apply for the job - ultimately reducing the competition for the jobs that I've applied for. Sometimes it reduces it too far, though, and the company fails to fill the position. I did not apply to a job that seemed otherwise an ideal fit because they wanted a master's degree in CS, and my degree was a mere bachelor's in mathematics from Caltech. (At the time, Caltech's CS program only offered graduate degrees. They had all the usual undergraduate CS courses, which I had taken, but simply had not yet set up a degree program for the bachelor's so all us would-be CS majors actually got our degrees in something else. Usually math or physics or EE). Six months later they were still looking and a headhunter sent them my resume. I was quickly hired. By asking for more than they actually needed, the position went unfilled for at least 6 extra months and they had to pay a headhunter 10% of my salary.