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> Am I still entitled to be healthy, or is health reserved for "productive" people? Who pays for the sustenance of these idle people and why are they obligate

> Am I still entitled to be healthy, or is health reserved for "productive" people? Who pays for the sustenance of these idle people and why are they obligated to do it? Life is not sustained by manna from heaven. Life is sustained by the hard work of real people. Glorifying idleness is a giant "screw you" to the people who make civilization possible.

zozbot234 6y ago
We are of course not obligated, but it's a good bet that those who are currently idle will become productive if we enable them to do so, and we all stand to benefit. Teach a man to fish, and all that.
- quotemstr 6y ago
  I'm all for helping people be productive. It's a shame to waste human potential. But if you have the ability to be productive and choose to be idle instead, nobody is under any obligation to feed, house, or clothe you. If you want things made by other people and you're able to work, you must work. Anything else is incompatible with basic tenets of fairness. And even ignoring fairness and descending to the level of crude practicality, when you take from the productive and give to the unproductive, the size of the former group shrinks and the latter one grows. Eventually, there's not enough productivity to go around and the whole thing collapses.
  - fock 6y ago
    still, even really productive people (such as the ones sewing your shirt) can't yet have all of the above basic goods (let alone something extra), while yet other people (heirs, investors, ...) are consuming insane amounts of labor in no relation to the outputs of their "work" (if they do any). That's what our economic system is happily covering and it's decidedly not fair in any rational way. And its also leading to societal collapse if you're looking at the US.
  - RestlessMind 6y ago
    I am fine with your reasoning as long as we apply the same measure of fairness to "trust-fund babies". If you do nothing and still get good food, big house and nice clothes just because your ancestors worked hard, how is that a fair setup?
bambax 6y ago
That is a very clear answer to the question! So the health promise is simply transactional.
fortran77 6y ago
> the people who make civilization possible. People like you?

zozbot234 6y ago

We are of course not obligated, but it's a good bet that those who are currently idle will become productive if we enable them to do so, and we all stand to benefit. Teach a man to fish, and all that.

quotemstr 6y ago
I'm all for helping people be productive. It's a shame to waste human potential. But if you have the ability to be productive and choose to be idle instead, nobody is under any obligation to feed, house, or clothe you. If you want things made by other people and you're able to work, you must work. Anything else is incompatible with basic tenets of fairness. And even ignoring fairness and descending to the level of crude practicality, when you take from the productive and give to the unproductive, the size of the former group shrinks and the latter one grows. Eventually, there's not enough productivity to go around and the whole thing collapses.
- fock 6y ago
  still, even really productive people (such as the ones sewing your shirt) can't yet have all of the above basic goods (let alone something extra), while yet other people (heirs, investors, ...) are consuming insane amounts of labor in no relation to the outputs of their "work" (if they do any). That's what our economic system is happily covering and it's decidedly not fair in any rational way. And its also leading to societal collapse if you're looking at the US.
- RestlessMind 6y ago
  I am fine with your reasoning as long as we apply the same measure of fairness to "trust-fund babies". If you do nothing and still get good food, big house and nice clothes just because your ancestors worked hard, how is that a fair setup?

bambax 6y ago

That is a very clear answer to the question! So the health promise is simply transactional.

fortran77 6y ago

> the people who make civilization possible. People like you?