6 ms·

Cloudflare + Backblaze B2 (or Wasabi) beats this hard. They are Bandwidth Alliance partners, so you won't incur egress traffic cost in B2 side. Cloudflare's Fre

by 0xbkt 6y ago

Cloudflare + Backblaze B2 (or Wasabi) beats this hard. They are Bandwidth Alliance partners, so you won't incur egress traffic cost in B2 side. Cloudflare's Free plan is more than enough in most cases. Also B2 gives you free 10 GB storage when you sign up.

yorick 6y ago
I've had poor experiences with Wasabi's availability in practice. Does cloudflare deal with hours-long outages well? Do you know if B2 fares better?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mythrwy 6y ago
  For whatever it's worth, I have had 0 issues with Wasabi availability in about a year and a half of use.
gradschool 6y ago
Cloudflare blocks Tor users unless they solve a Google CAPTCHA and accept cookies. By saving money you limit your audience and make the world a worse place. https://blog.torproject.org/trouble-cloudflare https://blog.torproject.org/trouble-cloudflare
- jgrahamc 6y ago
  Have you tried visiting a Cloudflare-protected site using the TBB recently? (as in within the last few years?). We don't block Tor users. I use TBB to browse and don't see this problem.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- peterwwillis 6y ago
  > Users are either blocked outright with CAPTCHA server failure messages, or prevented from reaching websites with a long (and sometimes endless) loop of CAPTCHAs, many of which require the user to understand English in order to solve correctly. For users in developing nations who pay for Internet service by the minute, the problem is even worse as the CAPTCHAs load slowly and users may have to solve dozens each day with no guarantee of reaching a particular site. Rather than waste their limited Internet time, such users will either navigate away, or choose not to use Tor and put themselves at risk. So, if we don't make our websites available in languages used by oppressed peoples, if we don't make sure it's very low latency, and if we try to filter out abusive users, we're making the world a worse place. Not just leaving the world in a bad state, but actively increasing the harm done to the world, just by making a website that not everyone can or wants to use. Not only do I not buy this argument, it makes me want to support Tor less, if for no other reason than blatantly ignoring why the captchas were put up in the first place.
  - ethanwillis 6y ago
    I agree with most of what you're saying but then I don't agree with your assertion that this makes you want to support Tor less. The part you have a problem with, that it actively increases harm done in the world, wasn't even an assertion made by Tor.
- gigatexal 6y ago
  Tor users using this e-commerce service are probably a tiny fraction of a percent of the op’s addressable market: easily a “who cares” demographic.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    TOR and most e-commerce aren’t compatible anyhow proper opsec on any anonymizing Network is to not de-anonymize yourself by tying your activity to your identity. If you use TOR to access services that can be directly correlated to your identity you are simply using a slow VPN at that point.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- detaro 6y ago
  AFAIK Cloudflare allows site owners to configure that.
john-shaffer 6y ago
79 cents cheaper = "beats this hard" with no analysis of the performance or reliability differences? Or even time to set up? B2 is still missing basic website functionality that you have to code and test yourself. [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23071273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23071273
- SergeAx 6y ago
  Cloudflare has way more points of presence than AWS Cloudfront even inside US and Europe, set aside countries like Russia or Australia. There's no point using Cloudfront unless you deeply integrated into AWS or negotiated serious price discount.
  - john-shaffer 6y ago
    I have some clients that use Cloudflare, and others that use CloudFront. All of the CloudFront sites perform far better than all of the Cloudflare sites. I don't care how many points of presence Cloudflare has if the performance is worse.
    - rovr138 6y ago
      Just curious, what metrics?
      - john-shaffer 6y ago
        TTFB and total load time
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > I don't care how many points of presence Cloudflare has if the performance is worse. Do you have any data that supports your claims?
      - john-shaffer 6y ago
        As I stated, they are client websites, which I don't particularly feel like disclosing. It's trivially easy to find benchmarks. [1] is old, but it gives you an idea of the stark differences that I have seen in practice. [1] https://goldfirestudios.com/cdn-benchmarks-cloudflare-vs-cloudfront https://goldfirestudios.com/cdn-benchmarks-cloudflare-vs-clo... [2] https://www.bizety.com/2018/05/01/network-performance-benchmark-akamai-vs-aws-cloudfront-vs-google-cdn/ https://www.bizety.com/2018/05/01/network-performance-benchm...

by 0xbkt 6y ago

yorick 6y ago

I've had poor experiences with Wasabi's availability in practice. Does cloudflare deal with hours-long outages well? Do you know if B2 fares better?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mythrwy 6y ago
For whatever it's worth, I have had 0 issues with Wasabi availability in about a year and a half of use.

gradschool 6y ago

Cloudflare blocks Tor users unless they solve a Google CAPTCHA and accept cookies. By saving money you limit your audience and make the world a worse place. https://blog.torproject.org/trouble-cloudflare https://blog.torproject.org/trouble-cloudflare

jgrahamc 6y ago
Have you tried visiting a Cloudflare-protected site using the TBB recently? (as in within the last few years?). We don't block Tor users. I use TBB to browse and don't see this problem.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
peterwwillis 6y ago
> Users are either blocked outright with CAPTCHA server failure messages, or prevented from reaching websites with a long (and sometimes endless) loop of CAPTCHAs, many of which require the user to understand English in order to solve correctly. For users in developing nations who pay for Internet service by the minute, the problem is even worse as the CAPTCHAs load slowly and users may have to solve dozens each day with no guarantee of reaching a particular site. Rather than waste their limited Internet time, such users will either navigate away, or choose not to use Tor and put themselves at risk. So, if we don't make our websites available in languages used by oppressed peoples, if we don't make sure it's very low latency, and if we try to filter out abusive users, we're making the world a worse place. Not just leaving the world in a bad state, but actively increasing the harm done to the world, just by making a website that not everyone can or wants to use. Not only do I not buy this argument, it makes me want to support Tor less, if for no other reason than blatantly ignoring why the captchas were put up in the first place.
- ethanwillis 6y ago
  I agree with most of what you're saying but then I don't agree with your assertion that this makes you want to support Tor less. The part you have a problem with, that it actively increases harm done in the world, wasn't even an assertion made by Tor.
gigatexal 6y ago
Tor users using this e-commerce service are probably a tiny fraction of a percent of the op’s addressable market: easily a “who cares” demographic.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  TOR and most e-commerce aren’t compatible anyhow proper opsec on any anonymizing Network is to not de-anonymize yourself by tying your activity to your identity. If you use TOR to access services that can be directly correlated to your identity you are simply using a slow VPN at that point.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
detaro 6y ago
AFAIK Cloudflare allows site owners to configure that.

john-shaffer 6y ago

79 cents cheaper = "beats this hard" with no analysis of the performance or reliability differences? Or even time to set up? B2 is still missing basic website functionality that you have to code and test yourself. [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23071273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23071273

SergeAx 6y ago
Cloudflare has way more points of presence than AWS Cloudfront even inside US and Europe, set aside countries like Russia or Australia. There's no point using Cloudfront unless you deeply integrated into AWS or negotiated serious price discount.
- john-shaffer 6y ago
  I have some clients that use Cloudflare, and others that use CloudFront. All of the CloudFront sites perform far better than all of the Cloudflare sites. I don't care how many points of presence Cloudflare has if the performance is worse.
  - rovr138 6y ago
    Just curious, what metrics?
    - john-shaffer 6y ago
      TTFB and total load time
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > I don't care how many points of presence Cloudflare has if the performance is worse. Do you have any data that supports your claims?
    - john-shaffer 6y ago
      As I stated, they are client websites, which I don't particularly feel like disclosing. It's trivially easy to find benchmarks. [1] is old, but it gives you an idea of the stark differences that I have seen in practice. [1] https://goldfirestudios.com/cdn-benchmarks-cloudflare-vs-cloudfront https://goldfirestudios.com/cdn-benchmarks-cloudflare-vs-clo... [2] https://www.bizety.com/2018/05/01/network-performance-benchmark-akamai-vs-aws-cloudfront-vs-google-cdn/ https://www.bizety.com/2018/05/01/network-performance-benchm...