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"Freedom isn't free" Freedom is extremely expensive in terms of blood required to achieve it, so I'm always amazed at how easily people are convinced to give i

by umvi 6y ago

"Freedom isn't free" Freedom is extremely expensive in terms of blood required to achieve it, so I'm always amazed at how easily people are convinced to give it up one inch at a time until it's all gone again.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
Most people don’t realize that the equilibrium state of humanity is definitely not freedom. Just check your nextdoor app, or facebook: humans love telling other humans how to behave, if you give them force, they will use it.
- candiodari 6y ago
  And in plenty of fields, people do actually have this option. Correcting society is an explicit goal of social work and psychology, both in research and practice. From "youth work" (50%+ unwanted by both youth and parents, and when it comes to residential treatments 85%+ unwanted, and 12% residential treatment is convicted youth) to "social work" for adults (again, majority is unwanted) And of course, unwanted means that for the "clients" there is at the very least a threat of violence against them (or their kids/family/...) in the majority (for kids VERY large majority) of cases. In some countries, "the social sector" is the biggest public sector, in all countries it's very, very big. Including the US, but at least here it doesn't exceed education or the medical sector in size. Of course, these don't let themselves be stopped by the longstanding research pointing out that without client's cooperation (and of course unwanted means no cooperation), there is little to no point to treatment, and very significant downsides. Which is why horror stories like this happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_Pothoven#:~:text=3%20Publications-,Life%20and%20activism,and%20made%20her%20well%2Dknown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_Pothoven#:~:text=3%20Publi.... Such horror stories are anecdotal evidence. The real proof comes from large scale statistical studies: https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s2215-0366(19)30180-4 https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s2215-0366(19)30180-4 Or, for the youth case: https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583 https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583
lenkite 6y ago
As the American Declaration of Independence states "..all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed" What a truly, extra-ordinary document on the human condition. Coming up with that text in that era..I wish I had that kind of insight and wisdom.

by umvi 6y ago

mensetmanusman 6y ago

Most people don’t realize that the equilibrium state of humanity is definitely not freedom. Just check your nextdoor app, or facebook: humans love telling other humans how to behave, if you give them force, they will use it.

candiodari 6y ago
And in plenty of fields, people do actually have this option. Correcting society is an explicit goal of social work and psychology, both in research and practice. From "youth work" (50%+ unwanted by both youth and parents, and when it comes to residential treatments 85%+ unwanted, and 12% residential treatment is convicted youth) to "social work" for adults (again, majority is unwanted) And of course, unwanted means that for the "clients" there is at the very least a threat of violence against them (or their kids/family/...) in the majority (for kids VERY large majority) of cases. In some countries, "the social sector" is the biggest public sector, in all countries it's very, very big. Including the US, but at least here it doesn't exceed education or the medical sector in size. Of course, these don't let themselves be stopped by the longstanding research pointing out that without client's cooperation (and of course unwanted means no cooperation), there is little to no point to treatment, and very significant downsides. Which is why horror stories like this happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_Pothoven#:~:text=3%20Publications-,Life%20and%20activism,and%20made%20her%20well%2Dknown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa_Pothoven#:~:text=3%20Publi.... Such horror stories are anecdotal evidence. The real proof comes from large scale statistical studies: https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s2215-0366(19)30180-4 https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s2215-0366(19)30180-4 Or, for the youth case: https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583 https://sci-hub.se/10.1257/aer.97.5.1583

lenkite 6y ago

As the American Declaration of Independence states "..all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed" What a truly, extra-ordinary document on the human condition. Coming up with that text in that era..I wish I had that kind of insight and wisdom.