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Of course, the question is a false dichotomy. Now is the perfect time to switch to something else entirely. The Ryzen laptops with Linux are beasts and even W

Of course, the question is a false dichotomy. Now is the perfect time to switch to something else entirely. The Ryzen laptops with Linux are beasts and even Windows might be a good developer workstation with their Linux subsystem.

qayxc 6y ago
That time to switch depends entirely on the target demographic, though. It might be fine for your web developer type or casual user. Professionals, however, have a lot invested in certain platforms. Be it the ability to publish their work (e.g. Apple's Walled Garden requires you to use a Mac for publishing to their app stores), workflows established over years, or investment in hard- and software that are tied to the Mac ecosystem. Switching to something else entirely is of course always an option, but it's not always a realistic or sensible option...
- fierarul 6y ago
  In my book a professional that marries a given platform so hard is no true professional. Although it might seem oh so sensible and realistic to give into even more strings to be attached. It should give these professionals pause if they are so utterly dependent on a system. There are also quite a lot of professionals that could easily switch with some minor inconveniences. PS: I find it jarring how you are associating the casual user with a web developer type.
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    A professional shouldn't be "married" to a platform, but most professionals have a clear understanding which platform gives them the best productivity and the environment they like to work in. There are quite a few things which keep me going with the Mac over a Windows machine, though WSL makes the latter more interesting than it had been in the past.
  - qayxc 6y ago
    > I find it jarring how you are associating the casual user with a web developer type. How so? Both don't require any special hard- or software environment and in principle only need an environment that provides access to a modern browser (and optionally some tools for office, graphic editing and the like). You can use cloud-based services like REPL.it to fulfil all your development needs in the browser. Backends are available in the cloud and all your source code lives there anyway. No need for beefy local hardware or any particular OS. It's the ultimate platform-agnostic development activity and thus your OS or hardware shouldn't matter - just like it shouldn't matter for casual users; every mainstream and even many niche OS these days are usable enough for everyday tasks and running modern browsers. If you think it's somehow degrading to say that modern web development doesn't require any more hard- or software than casually browsing the web, watching movies, or editing holiday pictures, then you completely missed the point. It's actually great that you don't need expensive workstation level hard- and software to do web development and that - in principle - an iPad with a keyboard will do.
    - fierarul 6y ago
      >> I find it jarring how you are associating the casual user with a web developer type. > How so? Both don't require any special hard- or software environment Because you're implying they're not professionals. Requiring specific hardware / software doesn't make one more professional. The entirety of Java developers are using cross platform tools. Are Java developers not professionals? More to the point, all the major IDEs are Java based and you could run them on Linux too.
      - qayxc 6y ago
        > Because you're implying they're not professionals. Don't be ridiculous - nowhere did I imply that. If you feel that way, that's more projection than anything else.
        fierarul 6y ago
        > Don't be ridiculous - nowhere did I imply that. You did imply that: > It might be fine for your web developer type or casual user. > Professionals, however,.... "However" means "on the other hand" and it looks like you emphasise professionals. > If you feel that way, that's more projection than anything else. Could have also been a Freudian slip from you.
_ph_ 6y ago
The funny thing is, I considered that option before the Apple announcement. I was basically decided, but the big thing was: I couldn't find a good offering for a really good Ryzen laptop, especially when considering running Linux (I would still be interested in getting a recommendation). But so far I find the Apple announcements so exciting, that going Ryzen has been put back into being plan B.
- fierarul 6y ago
  I have the Lenovo Legion 5. Only problem with it is the trackpad doesn't work with Ubuntu 20.04 (some kernel regression that I don't have the time to track down, so I'm using an external mouse).

qayxc 6y ago

That time to switch depends entirely on the target demographic, though. It might be fine for your web developer type or casual user. Professionals, however, have a lot invested in certain platforms. Be it the ability to publish their work (e.g. Apple's Walled Garden requires you to use a Mac for publishing to their app stores), workflows established over years, or investment in hard- and software that are tied to the Mac ecosystem. Switching to something else entirely is of course always an option, but it's not always a realistic or sensible option...

fierarul 6y ago
In my book a professional that marries a given platform so hard is no true professional. Although it might seem oh so sensible and realistic to give into even more strings to be attached. It should give these professionals pause if they are so utterly dependent on a system. There are also quite a lot of professionals that could easily switch with some minor inconveniences. PS: I find it jarring how you are associating the casual user with a web developer type.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  A professional shouldn't be "married" to a platform, but most professionals have a clear understanding which platform gives them the best productivity and the environment they like to work in. There are quite a few things which keep me going with the Mac over a Windows machine, though WSL makes the latter more interesting than it had been in the past.
- qayxc 6y ago
  > I find it jarring how you are associating the casual user with a web developer type. How so? Both don't require any special hard- or software environment and in principle only need an environment that provides access to a modern browser (and optionally some tools for office, graphic editing and the like). You can use cloud-based services like REPL.it to fulfil all your development needs in the browser. Backends are available in the cloud and all your source code lives there anyway. No need for beefy local hardware or any particular OS. It's the ultimate platform-agnostic development activity and thus your OS or hardware shouldn't matter - just like it shouldn't matter for casual users; every mainstream and even many niche OS these days are usable enough for everyday tasks and running modern browsers. If you think it's somehow degrading to say that modern web development doesn't require any more hard- or software than casually browsing the web, watching movies, or editing holiday pictures, then you completely missed the point. It's actually great that you don't need expensive workstation level hard- and software to do web development and that - in principle - an iPad with a keyboard will do.
  - fierarul 6y ago
    >> I find it jarring how you are associating the casual user with a web developer type. > How so? Both don't require any special hard- or software environment Because you're implying they're not professionals. Requiring specific hardware / software doesn't make one more professional. The entirety of Java developers are using cross platform tools. Are Java developers not professionals? More to the point, all the major IDEs are Java based and you could run them on Linux too.
    - qayxc 6y ago
      > Because you're implying they're not professionals. Don't be ridiculous - nowhere did I imply that. If you feel that way, that's more projection than anything else.
      - fierarul 6y ago
        > Don't be ridiculous - nowhere did I imply that. You did imply that: > It might be fine for your web developer type or casual user. > Professionals, however,.... "However" means "on the other hand" and it looks like you emphasise professionals. > If you feel that way, that's more projection than anything else. Could have also been a Freudian slip from you.

_ph_ 6y ago

The funny thing is, I considered that option before the Apple announcement. I was basically decided, but the big thing was: I couldn't find a good offering for a really good Ryzen laptop, especially when considering running Linux (I would still be interested in getting a recommendation). But so far I find the Apple announcements so exciting, that going Ryzen has been put back into being plan B.

fierarul 6y ago
I have the Lenovo Legion 5. Only problem with it is the trackpad doesn't work with Ubuntu 20.04 (some kernel regression that I don't have the time to track down, so I'm using an external mouse).