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Would it be possible to design a macbook that has both an intel x86 processor and an ARM one? Sort of like how we turn off the discrete GPU when not needed. Too

Would it be possible to design a macbook that has both an intel x86 processor and an ARM one? Sort of like how we turn off the discrete GPU when not needed. Too expensive or too complex?

netsharc 6y ago
In 1995 they had a PowerPC and 486 in one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UclHrIIaYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UclHrIIaYA I guess, like the graphics cards, the "weaker" card is connected to the display, and just passes through information. So with a dual CPU it would really be like virtualization, and the input/output would be handled by the newer ARM cpu, but if they'd need to run an x86-64 program, they'd start up that CPU and whatever info it needs from the OS, there'd be a translation layer.
abrowne 6y ago
The T2 in the current MacBooks is an ARM chip, so it's possible, they just aren't using it to run the main OS.
tus88 6y ago
They will just emulate x86 which is the same result.
valuearb 6y ago
Actually existing Macs sort of have both, given they include the T2 chip which contains the same ARM cores that were in the iPhone 7. It's actually not the cost, though having two functional CPUs would cost more. How would it work? How much time and effort would go into building the hardware so they could interoperate and the OS to make it usable? Just a massive amount of complexity for very little gain. Apple's Rosetta2 will already run x86 code with very good performance on Apple Silicon, in MacOS as a MacOS app. Hundreds of dollars per Mac cheaper, and far less complex to integrate.
- toast0 6y ago
  This could be fun to make work. Processes would have a flag for x86 or arm, and only be scheduled on the processors for that type of processor. Most likely pick one processor architecture as native for the kernel in, and the other one has just enough kernel to trap system calls and call into the native kernel, and switch tasks.
petepete 6y ago
A modern-day SunPCi would be amazing. They were essentially a full 'PC' on a single expansion card you can add to a SPARC workstation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunPCi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunPCi
- wtallis 6y ago
  Last order date for the Intel Visual Compute Accelerator 2 is August 1: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/servers/accelerators/visual-compute-accelerator-vca1585lmv.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/servers/acc... That card gets you 3 laptop-class quad-core CPUs with integrated graphics.
  - petepete 6y ago
    Ah, I wasn't aware of these, it's a really interesting approach and could probably save quite a bit of space in a rack. They're solving a slightly different problem though.
robterrell 6y ago
There's a long history for this idea: https://lowendmac.com/1985/dayna-maccharlie/ https://lowendmac.com/1985/dayna-maccharlie/
perardi 6y ago
I think the market for that is tiny. I don’t think all that many Mac buyers care all that much about Bootcamp or Docker. If, within 6 months of ARM Macs coming out, we have Chrome, the Adobe suite, and Microsoft Office running natively, that will cover the vast majority of Mac use cases.

Would it be possible to design a macbook that has both an intel x86 processor and an ARM one? Sort of like how we turn off the discrete GPU when not needed. Too expensive or too complex?

netsharc 6y ago

In 1995 they had a PowerPC and 486 in one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UclHrIIaYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UclHrIIaYA I guess, like the graphics cards, the "weaker" card is connected to the display, and just passes through information. So with a dual CPU it would really be like virtualization, and the input/output would be handled by the newer ARM cpu, but if they'd need to run an x86-64 program, they'd start up that CPU and whatever info it needs from the OS, there'd be a translation layer.

abrowne 6y ago

The T2 in the current MacBooks is an ARM chip, so it's possible, they just aren't using it to run the main OS.

tus88 6y ago

They will just emulate x86 which is the same result.

valuearb 6y ago

Actually existing Macs sort of have both, given they include the T2 chip which contains the same ARM cores that were in the iPhone 7. It's actually not the cost, though having two functional CPUs would cost more. How would it work? How much time and effort would go into building the hardware so they could interoperate and the OS to make it usable? Just a massive amount of complexity for very little gain. Apple's Rosetta2 will already run x86 code with very good performance on Apple Silicon, in MacOS as a MacOS app. Hundreds of dollars per Mac cheaper, and far less complex to integrate.

toast0 6y ago
This could be fun to make work. Processes would have a flag for x86 or arm, and only be scheduled on the processors for that type of processor. Most likely pick one processor architecture as native for the kernel in, and the other one has just enough kernel to trap system calls and call into the native kernel, and switch tasks.

petepete 6y ago

A modern-day SunPCi would be amazing. They were essentially a full 'PC' on a single expansion card you can add to a SPARC workstation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunPCi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunPCi

wtallis 6y ago
Last order date for the Intel Visual Compute Accelerator 2 is August 1: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/servers/accelerators/visual-compute-accelerator-vca1585lmv.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/servers/acc... That card gets you 3 laptop-class quad-core CPUs with integrated graphics.
- petepete 6y ago
  Ah, I wasn't aware of these, it's a really interesting approach and could probably save quite a bit of space in a rack. They're solving a slightly different problem though.

robterrell 6y ago

There's a long history for this idea: https://lowendmac.com/1985/dayna-maccharlie/ https://lowendmac.com/1985/dayna-maccharlie/

perardi 6y ago

I think the market for that is tiny. I don’t think all that many Mac buyers care all that much about Bootcamp or Docker. If, within 6 months of ARM Macs coming out, we have Chrome, the Adobe suite, and Microsoft Office running natively, that will cover the vast majority of Mac use cases.