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To most people I would say that it depends on what you want to do with your Mac. If you also want/need to run Windows I would pick an Intel one. If you think yo

by htk 6y ago

To most people I would say that it depends on what you want to do with your Mac. If you also want/need to run Windows I would pick an Intel one. If you think you’d be content to live exclusively in Apple’s World I would pick the Arm one as it has the upside of also running iOS apps natively.

als0 6y ago
> it has the upside of also running iOS apps natively I've been thinking about this lately, and I wonder who the audience is. For example, I've had a Chromebook that can run Android apps for a while now, but I've never wanted to run them when the desktop equivalent is available. Even if a desktop equivalent is not available, it has the downside of not fitting in well with the look-and-feel and ergonomics of the desktop. However, I think being able to run iOS apps natively is great for developers testing iOS/iPadOS apps.
- minimaxir 6y ago
  Since it seems like Catalyst is not as popular as expected, I'd love to run streamlined native apps in their own window without having to open a browser tab of everything (e.g. for Reddit, using Apollo instead of the god-awful web UI) iOS apps on the Mac would give it a robust gaming library overnight.
  - toyg 6y ago
    > Catalyst is not as popular as expected Expected by whom, exactly? I don’t think anyone ever asked for Catalyst, it was just an ugly push from Apple. It’s unpopularity was actually fairly predictable. And on iOS gaming: iOS gaming and desktop gaming cater to different markets. Nobody ever bought a desktop or laptop to play something like Fruit Ninja.
    - als0 6y ago
      Indeed. I don't imagine games that are designed for two thumbs, like Fruit Ninja and Flappy Bird, are going to contribute significantly to the Mac's gaming experience.
      - minimaxir 6y ago
        Mobile gaming has evolved quite a bit past 2013. You can get console quality games now, especially now that developers are now using MFI more consistently.
        toyg 6y ago
        The point is that, if it works well on a phone, why would I use a desktop to play it...? One buys a desktop or laptop to play games that cannot be played on a phone.
        minimaxir 6y ago
        So people can play via whatever method is most convenient. (c.f. the Switch's value proposition)
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    > iOS apps on the Mac would give it a robust gaming library overnight. It wouldn't. It would give MacOS a library of games optimised for mobile. Why would you want those on a desktop computer? And how would you play many of them when they require touch input?
    - minimaxir 6y ago
      Sure, not 100% of the games will work / some gestures may be wonky, but the vast majority of popular iOS games I can think of would work fine out of the box. (much less APM than games like Diablo or MOBAs) I’d love to play longer iOS games on a system that doesn’t cause it to heat up profusely and massively drain battery life, as there are some unique iOS games that were never ported to a Mac.
      - dmitriid 6y ago
        > Sure, not 100% of the games will work / some gestures may be wonky That probably includes the vast majority of games that you would want to play on a desktop system: the ones with perceived console quality. Nowhere is this more evident than in Apple Arcade. It has cross platform games. About none of them have any appeal for a desktop gamer. Non-ported mobile games? They will have even less appeal. Except some casual games like Monument Valley. > there are some unique iOS games that were never ported to a Mac Once again, the vast majority of those will most likely be very foreign on a desktop OS.
- aikinai 6y ago
  One huge difference is that iOS has a very rich tablet app ecosystem while Android doesn’t.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Xcode simulator already runs ios*ipad apps on Intel Macs. It will be interesting to see how Apple presents iOS apps on the ARM Macs. IE how discoverable they will be, not just how useful. Will I get all my compatible iOS apps automatically installed when I login with my iCloud ID? Will there be a Launcher style window for them, or widgets style overlay?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Note: iOS apps compiled for Intel. iOS apps on Mac will be that they will be pretty much transparent, like Rosetta is claimed to be. You get them from the App Store and can launch them like any other app.
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      Yes, but there's no reason Apple couldn't launch this feature on x86 macs if they wanted to. Almost everyone is developing their apps in the x86 simulator anyway. No doubt some apps have ARM-only libraries, but I doubt it's many.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        They can't opt apps in automatically. With the current scheme apps from the App Store can be offered without developers needing to submit a new build.
- mrkstu 6y ago
  There is a high likelyhood that ARM Macs will be a 'superset' of iPads going forward. That means at least some models will have touch screens/support apple pencil/be convertible form factor. Like now, two ecosystems in one, but the other is iPad. I'd love a lightweight convertible Macbook, or an iPad Pro that is really an ARM Mac but can 'be' an iPad (w/16 Gigs of RAM) at any time.
- jamil7 6y ago
  After SwiftUI and Catalyst I was also pretty surprised by apple announcing that iOS apps will just run on ARM macs. After giving us a few options for convergence they also just seemingly bolted that one on for good measure because they could. Not sure anyone expected that. Even weirder I opened up app store connect a few days ago and got a message telling me all my iOS apps would be available in the mac app store unless I opt out... The only thing it makes sense for is maybe games and even thats a stretch without proper touch UI
- tootie 6y ago
  I would never buy another Apple laptop in my life and be perfectly happy except that I need to work on iOS apps pretty regularly. Even for web dev, you need to be able test on a Mac for compatibility. This is purely because Apple won't allow VMs for their systems which is a pretty shitty stance to take. It's super easy to run Windows or Android on a Mac or even Linux.

by htk 6y ago

als0 6y ago

> it has the upside of also running iOS apps natively I've been thinking about this lately, and I wonder who the audience is. For example, I've had a Chromebook that can run Android apps for a while now, but I've never wanted to run them when the desktop equivalent is available. Even if a desktop equivalent is not available, it has the downside of not fitting in well with the look-and-feel and ergonomics of the desktop. However, I think being able to run iOS apps natively is great for developers testing iOS/iPadOS apps.

minimaxir 6y ago
Since it seems like Catalyst is not as popular as expected, I'd love to run streamlined native apps in their own window without having to open a browser tab of everything (e.g. for Reddit, using Apollo instead of the god-awful web UI) iOS apps on the Mac would give it a robust gaming library overnight.
- toyg 6y ago
  > Catalyst is not as popular as expected Expected by whom, exactly? I don’t think anyone ever asked for Catalyst, it was just an ugly push from Apple. It’s unpopularity was actually fairly predictable. And on iOS gaming: iOS gaming and desktop gaming cater to different markets. Nobody ever bought a desktop or laptop to play something like Fruit Ninja.
  - als0 6y ago
    Indeed. I don't imagine games that are designed for two thumbs, like Fruit Ninja and Flappy Bird, are going to contribute significantly to the Mac's gaming experience.
    - minimaxir 6y ago
      Mobile gaming has evolved quite a bit past 2013. You can get console quality games now, especially now that developers are now using MFI more consistently.
      - toyg 6y ago
        The point is that, if it works well on a phone, why would I use a desktop to play it...? One buys a desktop or laptop to play games that cannot be played on a phone.
        minimaxir 6y ago
        So people can play via whatever method is most convenient. (c.f. the Switch's value proposition)
- dmitriid 6y ago
  > iOS apps on the Mac would give it a robust gaming library overnight. It wouldn't. It would give MacOS a library of games optimised for mobile. Why would you want those on a desktop computer? And how would you play many of them when they require touch input?
  - minimaxir 6y ago
    Sure, not 100% of the games will work / some gestures may be wonky, but the vast majority of popular iOS games I can think of would work fine out of the box. (much less APM than games like Diablo or MOBAs) I’d love to play longer iOS games on a system that doesn’t cause it to heat up profusely and massively drain battery life, as there are some unique iOS games that were never ported to a Mac.
    - dmitriid 6y ago
      > Sure, not 100% of the games will work / some gestures may be wonky That probably includes the vast majority of games that you would want to play on a desktop system: the ones with perceived console quality. Nowhere is this more evident than in Apple Arcade. It has cross platform games. About none of them have any appeal for a desktop gamer. Non-ported mobile games? They will have even less appeal. Except some casual games like Monument Valley. > there are some unique iOS games that were never ported to a Mac Once again, the vast majority of those will most likely be very foreign on a desktop OS.
aikinai 6y ago
One huge difference is that iOS has a very rich tablet app ecosystem while Android doesn’t.
valuearb 6y ago
Xcode simulator already runs ios*ipad apps on Intel Macs. It will be interesting to see how Apple presents iOS apps on the ARM Macs. IE how discoverable they will be, not just how useful. Will I get all my compatible iOS apps automatically installed when I login with my iCloud ID? Will there be a Launcher style window for them, or widgets style overlay?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Note: iOS apps compiled for Intel. iOS apps on Mac will be that they will be pretty much transparent, like Rosetta is claimed to be. You get them from the App Store and can launch them like any other app.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    Yes, but there's no reason Apple couldn't launch this feature on x86 macs if they wanted to. Almost everyone is developing their apps in the x86 simulator anyway. No doubt some apps have ARM-only libraries, but I doubt it's many.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      They can't opt apps in automatically. With the current scheme apps from the App Store can be offered without developers needing to submit a new build.
mrkstu 6y ago
There is a high likelyhood that ARM Macs will be a 'superset' of iPads going forward. That means at least some models will have touch screens/support apple pencil/be convertible form factor. Like now, two ecosystems in one, but the other is iPad. I'd love a lightweight convertible Macbook, or an iPad Pro that is really an ARM Mac but can 'be' an iPad (w/16 Gigs of RAM) at any time.
jamil7 6y ago
After SwiftUI and Catalyst I was also pretty surprised by apple announcing that iOS apps will just run on ARM macs. After giving us a few options for convergence they also just seemingly bolted that one on for good measure because they could. Not sure anyone expected that. Even weirder I opened up app store connect a few days ago and got a message telling me all my iOS apps would be available in the mac app store unless I opt out... The only thing it makes sense for is maybe games and even thats a stretch without proper touch UI
tootie 6y ago
I would never buy another Apple laptop in my life and be perfectly happy except that I need to work on iOS apps pretty regularly. Even for web dev, you need to be able test on a Mac for compatibility. This is purely because Apple won't allow VMs for their systems which is a pretty shitty stance to take. It's super easy to run Windows or Android on a Mac or even Linux.