9 ms·

Big Tech marshals a right-leaning army of allies for antitrust fight

43 points by jlpcsl 6y ago

throwaway3699 6y ago
Considering the utter alienation of right-leaning opinions on Big Tech platforms under the guise of not being "advertiser friendly", they have a bloody tough fight on their hands.
lykr0n 6y ago
I will be very curious when the Google Anti-Trust suit drops to see how the tech world reacts. We've seen a lot of consolidation in the past few years- Google seems to be gobbling up any tech company that collects a lot of personal information without consequence. There are a lot of Googlers on HN who blindly follow Google, and more people who worship the ground Google walks on; i'll be curious to see what the discussion is like when Google's evil is laid out for the world to see. Lot of the stuff Google (and other companies like Facebook) is indefensible when you look at it from an anti-trust point of view. Stuff like this article, where Google is working with people who are against what a lot of Googler's stand for will be an interesting show.
- tmpz22 6y ago
  I think we'll see Google pander to whatever administration is presiding over the anti-trust suite. No matter which US party it is, we'll see Google go vehemently against its stated morals in multiple ways including increasing access for security agencies and changing their strategies for political donations. The same crowd that defends them now will find excuses in order to continue to support them no matter what they do.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Right, Left, Googlers are just tags to lump together disparate groups of people for the purpose of demonization.
  - catalogia 6y ago
    "Googler" is not an arbitrary or subjective label. It refers to people who work at google.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      Right, who have a wide range of different opinions on political issues and even Google itself.
      - catalogia 6y ago
        They have in common the belief "working at google is presently the right choice for me." (Unless they've already given their two-weeks notice I suppose.)
- xenihn 6y ago
  I would blindly follow them too if I worked for them. We're entering the technocratic feudalism stage of our country's history. Your government won't be able to ensure the safety and wellbeing of you and your loved ones, but your FAANG employer will. As long as you're a valued employee, that is.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Yeah, good luck eating silicon for breakfast. I'm sure the Twitter troll army will protect you if you ever need assistance.
- magicalist 6y ago
  > We've seen a lot of consolidation in the past few years- Google seems to be gobbling up any tech company that collects a lot of personal information without consequence. Like what? I can only remember what seemed like some bad vr acquisitions and companies that were basically already Google Cloud products.
  - dnissley 6y ago
    Fitbit
  - lykr0n 6y ago
    Nest, FitBit, Senosis, and more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...
  - tarboreus 6y ago
    Since January, 2015, they've acquired Launchpad Toys, Odysee, Softcard, Red Hot Labs, Thrive Audio, Skillman & Hackett, Timeful, Pulse.io, Pixate, Oyster, Jibe Mobile, Agawi, Digisfera, Fly Labs, bebop, BandPage, Pie, Synergyse, Webpass, Moodstocks, Anvato, Kifi, LaunchKit, Orbitera, Apigee, Urban Engines, API.AI, FameBit, Eyefluence, LeapDroid, Qwiklabs, Cronologics, Limes Audio, Fabric, Kaggle, AppBridge, Owlchemy Labs, Halli Labs, AIMatter, HTC (portions), Bitium, Relay Media, 60db, Redux, Tenor, Velostrata, Cask, GraphicsFuzz, Senosis, Onward, Workbench Education, Sigmoid Labs, DevOps Research and Assessment, Superpod, Alooma, Nightcorn, Looker, Elastifile, Socratic, CloudSimple, Typhoon Studios, Pointy, North, and, last but not least, Fitbit. Prior to that, Google acquired Dejavue, Outride, Pyra Labs, Neotonic Software, Applied Semantics, Kaltix, Sprinks, Genius Labs, Ignite Logic, Picasa, ZipDash, Where2, Keyhole, Urchin Software Corporation, Dodgeball, Akwan Information Technologies, Reqwireless, Android, Skia, Phatbits, allPAY, bruNET, dMarc Broadcasting, Measure Map, Upstartle, @Last Software, Orion, 2Web Technologies, Neven Vision Germany, YouTube, JotSpot, Endoxon, Adscape, Trendalyzer, Crusix, Tonic Systems, Marratech, DoubleClick, GreenBorder, Panoramio, FeedBurner, PeakStream, Zenter, GrandCentral, ImageAmerica, Postini, Zingku, Jaiku, Omnisio, TNC, On2, reCAPTCHA, AdMob, Gizmo5, Teracent, AppJet, Aardvark, reMail, Picnik, DocVerse, Episodic, Plink, Agnilux, LabPixies, BumpTop, Global IP Solutions, Simplify Media, Ruba.com, Invite Media, Metaweb, Zetawire, Instantiations, Slide.com, Jambool, Like.com, Angstro, SocialDeck, Quiksee, Plannr, BlindType, Phonetic Arts, Widevine Technologies, eBook Technologies, SayNow, Zynamics, BeatThatQuote.com, Next New Networks, Green Parrot Pictures, PushLife, ITA Software, TalkBin, Sparkbuy, PostRank, Admeld, SageTV, Punchd, Fridge, PittPatt, Dealmap, Motorola Mobility, Zave Networks, Zagat, DailyDeal, SocialGrapple, Apture, Katango, RightsFlow, Clever Sense, Milk, TxVia, Meebo, Quickoffice, Sparrow, WIMM Labs, Wildfire Interactive, VirusTotal.com, Nik Software, Viewdle, Incentive Targeting, BufferBox, Channel Intelligence, DNNresearch, Talaria Technologies, Behavio, Wavii, Makani Power, Waze, Bump, Flutter, FlexyCore, Schaft, Industrial Perception, Redwood Robotics, Meka Robotics, Holomni, Bot & Dolly, Autofuss, Bitspin, Nest Labs, Impermium, DeepMind Technologies, SlickLogin, spider.io, GreenThrottle, Titan Aerospace, Rangespan, Adometry, Appetas, Stackdriver, MyEnergy, Quest Visual, Divide, Skybox Imaging, mDialog, Alpental Technologies, Dropcam, Appurify, Songza, drawElements, Emu, Director, Jetpac, Gecko Design, Zync Render, Lift Labs, Polar, Firebase, Dark Blue Labs & Vision Factory, Revolv, RelativeWave, and Vidmaker.
- busterarm 6y ago
  I wouldn't really say it's the last few years. Google has had a vertical monopoly on search/advertising for at least 15 years now and nobody's (nobody that matters, anyway) said a peep about it really.
  - godzillabrennus 6y ago
    They learned from Microsoft’s mistake and have had a robust government affairs/lobbying effort for years.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    Nobody has said a peep because switching is still trivial. I use ddg as my daily driver. On the advertising front, until recently, Facebook was the favorite for many companies when it came to advertising due to the better targeting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
    - busterarm 6y ago
      You switching is meaningless. Between Android, Chrome, Google Search and AdWords, 99% and some nines of all web browsing globally is done with a Google product sitting in the middle. Even if you're using ddg, most pages you browse will have gclids somewhere.
- 7jdmy27SCB7QAy 6y ago
  >There are a lot of Googlers on HN who blindly follow Google Which is weird because internally people are pretty damn skeptical. If anything is found I'm all for doing what is determined "correct". I would worry that people with little understanding would make that call but time will tell. On the flipside of the quoted statement, I will say that Googlers have a far better understanding about what is collected/done (in other instance IE privacy) that your random at HN so are more likely to not be so dismissive/fear mongering. When you've seen the stomach of the best it's far less scary. Default opinions are my own because I'm paranoid.
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    > I will say that Googlers have a far better understanding ...it's far less scary. I've heard variations on this theme from a lot of Googlers, and it always seems like "just trust us!" but then they can't or won't publicly disclose any reasons why we should. Do you remember this pledge? http://neveragain.tech/ http://neveragain.tech/ > We refuse to build a database of people based on their Constitutionally-protected religious beliefs. We refuse to facilitate mass deportations of people the government believes to be undesirable. A bunch of Googlers signed that, but I'd wager Google has _already_ built that database. Maybe not explicitly, but I bet Google has a decent estimate of their users' religious beliefs, race, immigration status, etc. Those are valuable categories for marketers to target!
- dnissley 6y ago
  > Google's evil What is this for you? I ask because I seem to get a lot of different answers to this question.
  - lykr0n 6y ago
    One one hand, they expound the ideas of social justice and present themselves as a group that wants to make the world a better place, while undermining what they say they want to do by their actions. Google is a great example of the ultra-liberal left, where they are just as racist and scummy as the ultra-conservative, but they wrap it in a veil of "we want to help you and make things better for you." it's a form of gas-lighting. The lean into orwellian concepts under the guise of making the world a better place, when in reality it only makes it better for the people profiting from their technology. Google Loves LGBTQ, except when they're using YouTube to make a livelihood. In that case, Google fucks them. It's employment of "do as I say, not as I do" or "the upper-class liberal that calls the cops on the black dude walking down their street but has a Black Lives Matter sign in their yard." This ain't just Google, they're just the example I'm talking about right now.
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      I suspect what google is actually doing is whatever they think is best to keep their advertisers happy. It’s that simple.
    - woopwoop 6y ago
      This is extremely vague.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
  Google isn't perfect but I think the real deal will be the anti-trust cases against Amazon. Search for "Google Nest Mini" on Amazon and the top result is an Echo Dot followed by dozens of accessories for the Google Nest Mini but no Google Nest Minis.
  - lykr0n 6y ago
    Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Uber, and others as well. They all need to be broken up and have restrictions imposed on them. Apple is the only company I can see that won't be hit.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
      Apple hasn't been perfect with the app store. I think Microsoft ironically is best positioned for success when the government clamps down on user data abuses and big-tech antitrust.
    - habitue 6y ago
      Apple has made some very anti-competitive moves
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      > Apple is the only company I can see that won't be hit. This is kind of astonishing logic. The obvious case against Apple is that they control totally the market for iOS apps, but even if you take the Apple supporter's argument that you should use the overall app market (i.e. including Android apps), even though they can't run on the same devices, Apple would still have more of the overall phone app market than Amazon has of the online retail market. And yet Amazon is a problematic monopoly and Apple isn't?
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > Search for "Google Nest Mini" on Amazon and the top result is an Echo Dot followed by dozens of accessories for the Google Nest Mini but no Google Nest Minis. Type this into Google: site:amazon.com google nest mini The results are basically the same as you're describing. Maybe Amazon just doesn't sell it?
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Big Tech marshals a right-leaning army of allies for antitrust fight “Status quo elites marshal an army from the faction defined by defending the power of status quo elites for fight that might threaten their power” has to be, at least very nearly, the most dog-bites-purpose-built-dog-chew-toy story in the history of news. The unusual aspect of this is that the antitrust threat comes from the far right largely as retaliation for platforms being insufficiently accommodating to the far right, not that the defenders are the classic center-right-to-solid-right defenders of entrenched corporate power.
- wmf 6y ago
  But will the employees revolt? Or will they think the ends justify the means?
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    Google routinely funds the campaigns of far right US politicians and pays lip service to social justice issues. The latter has historically been sufficient to appease the employees.
    - lol2143651 6y ago
      """far-right""" ie. Positions everyone supported 15-25 years ago.
vmception 6y ago
The key sign of a sector's maturity is its presence on both/all sides of the aisle. I never go into another country thinking "wait did you guys just elect extremists because if so that makes me not want to do business here" so why would I treat America differently? When people use the term "virtue signaling" as a criticism of an organization's actions, it is based on the observation that the same organizations doing it are involved in plenty of other countries and didn't consider the political outcomes at all, only the convenience of what is possible in that country. Ireland, Cayman Islands, Netherlands are part of the standard cocktail, and when the head of state is rolling out a red carpet, I do not care how they got there.
busterarm 6y ago
The "right-leaning army" is just toll-paying to try and make this go away. Aside from Warren, the right is where the anti-trust charges are coming from. It's like getting pulled over in a small town -- you pay a lot into the local economy to make the ticket disappear.
- rayiner 6y ago
  No, "breaking up big tech" fits squarely into the left's anti-corporate narrative: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-tech-factbox/where-us-presidential-candidates-stand-on-breaking-up-big-tech-idUSKBN1ZN16C https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-tech-factbox... > Biden slammed big tech companies in a January interview with the New York Times, saying he had “never been a fan of Facebook” and arguing that online platforms should not be allowed immunity for content posted by users. > Warren is leading the charge to break up big tech companies on the grounds they hold outsized influence and stifle competition. > Sanders, who frequently criticizes corporate influence, has also called for the breakup of big tech companies such as Facebook and Amazon. Make no mistake, this isn't the Clintons' party anymore (or it won't be for much longer). The young blood hates business and corporations and is pulling the whole party in that direction.
  - busterarm 6y ago
    And Warren, whom I specifically mentioned, is the only one of those with both the right political office and sufficient motivation to see through doing something about it. Sanders hasn't gotten anything meaningful done as a legislator for pretty much his whole career and Biden at this point will say anything that his handlers put in front of him. As for your comment about it being in their narrative, don't forget: https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close-relationship-with-the-obama-white-house-in-two-charts/ https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close...
    - rayiner 6y ago
      The question is will President Biden act on anything that his handlers put in front of him.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 6y ago
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Being in the good graces of the left isn't something you can count on. The fact that you got rich by making products people want and need and made peoples' live better is something that will be forgotten as soon as its politically convenient. Given which way the winds are blowing, "Big Tech" isn't making a mistake by trying to make some "right-leaning" friends.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Gotta say, as a right leaning individual, they've got no support from me and I won't forget the censorship or selective targeting of conservatives. I'm as pro-capitalism as it gets but when I see freedom of speech threatened in the way that social media and big tech companies have been wont to do these days, I will not support their defense. They can be broken up just like Ma Bell and maybe we'll all be better off for it.
  - root_axis 6y ago
    I hear about the supposed selective targeting of conservatives all the time, but don't really see any evidence for it. Every well known conservative has a huge following on Twitter or YouTube. People sometimes point to Alex Jones as an example but he was clearly banned for smearing the parents of murdered Newtown children. I'm not saying that big tech doesn't lean left, but I don't see evidence that they target people just for being conservative.
    - chrisco255 6y ago
      Yeah, they fact check or block obvious parody tweets that are pro-conservative like the "racist baby" parody tweet a few weeks ago. They arbitrarily inject warning labels on Trump tweets while ignoring anti-cop tweets calling for violence and destruction (not just this year, going back to 2016 even [1]). The head of Twitter's Head of Site Integrity had this to say about red states: “I’m just saying,” he tweeted in November 2016, “we fly over those states that voted for a racist tangerine for a reason.” It doesn't just lean left. It actively hates, demeans and silences the right. [1] https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/737721?section=Headline&keywords=Anti-Police-Tweets-Surge-Twitter&year=2016&month=07&date=08&id=737721 https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/737721?section=Hea...
olivermarks 6y ago
Although various individuals from the conservative with a small 'c' world plus libertarians are cited in this article, the arguments put forth here are for me another example of a misunderstanding of what 'right leaning' might mean in this era. Proponents and builders of surveillance capitalism and associated global data gathering for corporate and state uses tend to lean 'left', as in neo liberal left. The older tradition of conservatism tends to be much more interested in personal privacy and respect for the individual. Example: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/facebook-and-google-must-be-regulated-now/ https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/facebook-an... Neo conservatives and neoliberals (the UK Guardian is a good example of globalist neo liberal ideas) are largely the same thing with some nuances. Just as there are various flavors of 'left' this is also true of the 'right'.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  "Proponents and builders of surveillance capitalism and associated global data gathering for corporate and state uses tend to lean 'left', as in neo liberal left." Neoliberalism is a right wing ideology, not a left wing one. ""Neoliberalism" is contemporarily used to refer to market-oriented reform policies such as "eliminating price controls, deregulating capital markets, lowering trade barriers" and reducing state influence in the economy, especially through privatization and austerity."[1] This is pretty much the opposite from what those on the left aim for. Those on the left want nationalization, not privitazation, regulation of capital markets, not deregulation, price controls, not their elimination, and more state influence in the economy, not less. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal
  - mola 6y ago
    Yes, and since the eighties the American Left embraced neoliberalism whole heatedly. Then leaned into progressiveness inorder to differentiate itself. So yeah, now we have flavors of neoliberalism.
    - olivermarks 6y ago
      @pmoriarty There is little to choose between Republican and Democrat politics in the US, they are both merely flavors of neoliberalism/neocon policies as @mola identifies. There are other branches of the left and right but they are suppressed, ignored or slandered in the corporate media. Silicon valley corporate political allegiances are a good example of neoliberalism, currently wrapped in identity politics
microDude 6y ago
I think about this all the time: Would it be possible to change the anti-trust laws so that companies can not merge or be acquired if the sum of their assets and revenue exceeds a set dollar figure adjusted for inflation? If A(assets + revenue) + B(assets + revenue) >= $, then not allowed to merge. This will promote competition from upstarts and increase the efficiency of these companies by preventing them from gobbling up every new market.

43 points by jlpcsl 6y ago

Considering the utter alienation of right-leaning opinions on Big Tech platforms under the guise of not being "advertiser friendly", they have a bloody tough fight on their hands.

lykr0n 6y ago

I will be very curious when the Google Anti-Trust suit drops to see how the tech world reacts. We've seen a lot of consolidation in the past few years- Google seems to be gobbling up any tech company that collects a lot of personal information without consequence. There are a lot of Googlers on HN who blindly follow Google, and more people who worship the ground Google walks on; i'll be curious to see what the discussion is like when Google's evil is laid out for the world to see. Lot of the stuff Google (and other companies like Facebook) is indefensible when you look at it from an anti-trust point of view. Stuff like this article, where Google is working with people who are against what a lot of Googler's stand for will be an interesting show.

tmpz22 6y ago
I think we'll see Google pander to whatever administration is presiding over the anti-trust suite. No matter which US party it is, we'll see Google go vehemently against its stated morals in multiple ways including increasing access for security agencies and changing their strategies for political donations. The same crowd that defends them now will find excuses in order to continue to support them no matter what they do.
valuearb 6y ago
Right, Left, Googlers are just tags to lump together disparate groups of people for the purpose of demonization.
- catalogia 6y ago
  "Googler" is not an arbitrary or subjective label. It refers to people who work at google.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Right, who have a wide range of different opinions on political issues and even Google itself.
    - catalogia 6y ago
      They have in common the belief "working at google is presently the right choice for me." (Unless they've already given their two-weeks notice I suppose.)
xenihn 6y ago
I would blindly follow them too if I worked for them. We're entering the technocratic feudalism stage of our country's history. Your government won't be able to ensure the safety and wellbeing of you and your loved ones, but your FAANG employer will. As long as you're a valued employee, that is.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Yeah, good luck eating silicon for breakfast. I'm sure the Twitter troll army will protect you if you ever need assistance.
magicalist 6y ago
> We've seen a lot of consolidation in the past few years- Google seems to be gobbling up any tech company that collects a lot of personal information without consequence. Like what? I can only remember what seemed like some bad vr acquisitions and companies that were basically already Google Cloud products.
- dnissley 6y ago
  Fitbit
- lykr0n 6y ago
  Nest, FitBit, Senosis, and more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...
- tarboreus 6y ago
  Since January, 2015, they've acquired Launchpad Toys, Odysee, Softcard, Red Hot Labs, Thrive Audio, Skillman & Hackett, Timeful, Pulse.io, Pixate, Oyster, Jibe Mobile, Agawi, Digisfera, Fly Labs, bebop, BandPage, Pie, Synergyse, Webpass, Moodstocks, Anvato, Kifi, LaunchKit, Orbitera, Apigee, Urban Engines, API.AI, FameBit, Eyefluence, LeapDroid, Qwiklabs, Cronologics, Limes Audio, Fabric, Kaggle, AppBridge, Owlchemy Labs, Halli Labs, AIMatter, HTC (portions), Bitium, Relay Media, 60db, Redux, Tenor, Velostrata, Cask, GraphicsFuzz, Senosis, Onward, Workbench Education, Sigmoid Labs, DevOps Research and Assessment, Superpod, Alooma, Nightcorn, Looker, Elastifile, Socratic, CloudSimple, Typhoon Studios, Pointy, North, and, last but not least, Fitbit. Prior to that, Google acquired Dejavue, Outride, Pyra Labs, Neotonic Software, Applied Semantics, Kaltix, Sprinks, Genius Labs, Ignite Logic, Picasa, ZipDash, Where2, Keyhole, Urchin Software Corporation, Dodgeball, Akwan Information Technologies, Reqwireless, Android, Skia, Phatbits, allPAY, bruNET, dMarc Broadcasting, Measure Map, Upstartle, @Last Software, Orion, 2Web Technologies, Neven Vision Germany, YouTube, JotSpot, Endoxon, Adscape, Trendalyzer, Crusix, Tonic Systems, Marratech, DoubleClick, GreenBorder, Panoramio, FeedBurner, PeakStream, Zenter, GrandCentral, ImageAmerica, Postini, Zingku, Jaiku, Omnisio, TNC, On2, reCAPTCHA, AdMob, Gizmo5, Teracent, AppJet, Aardvark, reMail, Picnik, DocVerse, Episodic, Plink, Agnilux, LabPixies, BumpTop, Global IP Solutions, Simplify Media, Ruba.com, Invite Media, Metaweb, Zetawire, Instantiations, Slide.com, Jambool, Like.com, Angstro, SocialDeck, Quiksee, Plannr, BlindType, Phonetic Arts, Widevine Technologies, eBook Technologies, SayNow, Zynamics, BeatThatQuote.com, Next New Networks, Green Parrot Pictures, PushLife, ITA Software, TalkBin, Sparkbuy, PostRank, Admeld, SageTV, Punchd, Fridge, PittPatt, Dealmap, Motorola Mobility, Zave Networks, Zagat, DailyDeal, SocialGrapple, Apture, Katango, RightsFlow, Clever Sense, Milk, TxVia, Meebo, Quickoffice, Sparrow, WIMM Labs, Wildfire Interactive, VirusTotal.com, Nik Software, Viewdle, Incentive Targeting, BufferBox, Channel Intelligence, DNNresearch, Talaria Technologies, Behavio, Wavii, Makani Power, Waze, Bump, Flutter, FlexyCore, Schaft, Industrial Perception, Redwood Robotics, Meka Robotics, Holomni, Bot & Dolly, Autofuss, Bitspin, Nest Labs, Impermium, DeepMind Technologies, SlickLogin, spider.io, GreenThrottle, Titan Aerospace, Rangespan, Adometry, Appetas, Stackdriver, MyEnergy, Quest Visual, Divide, Skybox Imaging, mDialog, Alpental Technologies, Dropcam, Appurify, Songza, drawElements, Emu, Director, Jetpac, Gecko Design, Zync Render, Lift Labs, Polar, Firebase, Dark Blue Labs & Vision Factory, Revolv, RelativeWave, and Vidmaker.
busterarm 6y ago
I wouldn't really say it's the last few years. Google has had a vertical monopoly on search/advertising for at least 15 years now and nobody's (nobody that matters, anyway) said a peep about it really.
- godzillabrennus 6y ago
  They learned from Microsoft’s mistake and have had a robust government affairs/lobbying effort for years.
- kortilla 6y ago
  Nobody has said a peep because switching is still trivial. I use ddg as my daily driver. On the advertising front, until recently, Facebook was the favorite for many companies when it came to advertising due to the better targeting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
  - busterarm 6y ago
    You switching is meaningless. Between Android, Chrome, Google Search and AdWords, 99% and some nines of all web browsing globally is done with a Google product sitting in the middle. Even if you're using ddg, most pages you browse will have gclids somewhere.
7jdmy27SCB7QAy 6y ago
>There are a lot of Googlers on HN who blindly follow Google Which is weird because internally people are pretty damn skeptical. If anything is found I'm all for doing what is determined "correct". I would worry that people with little understanding would make that call but time will tell. On the flipside of the quoted statement, I will say that Googlers have a far better understanding about what is collected/done (in other instance IE privacy) that your random at HN so are more likely to not be so dismissive/fear mongering. When you've seen the stomach of the best it's far less scary. Default opinions are my own because I'm paranoid.
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  > I will say that Googlers have a far better understanding ...it's far less scary. I've heard variations on this theme from a lot of Googlers, and it always seems like "just trust us!" but then they can't or won't publicly disclose any reasons why we should. Do you remember this pledge? http://neveragain.tech/ http://neveragain.tech/ > We refuse to build a database of people based on their Constitutionally-protected religious beliefs. We refuse to facilitate mass deportations of people the government believes to be undesirable. A bunch of Googlers signed that, but I'd wager Google has _already_ built that database. Maybe not explicitly, but I bet Google has a decent estimate of their users' religious beliefs, race, immigration status, etc. Those are valuable categories for marketers to target!
dnissley 6y ago
> Google's evil What is this for you? I ask because I seem to get a lot of different answers to this question.
- lykr0n 6y ago
  One one hand, they expound the ideas of social justice and present themselves as a group that wants to make the world a better place, while undermining what they say they want to do by their actions. Google is a great example of the ultra-liberal left, where they are just as racist and scummy as the ultra-conservative, but they wrap it in a veil of "we want to help you and make things better for you." it's a form of gas-lighting. The lean into orwellian concepts under the guise of making the world a better place, when in reality it only makes it better for the people profiting from their technology. Google Loves LGBTQ, except when they're using YouTube to make a livelihood. In that case, Google fucks them. It's employment of "do as I say, not as I do" or "the upper-class liberal that calls the cops on the black dude walking down their street but has a Black Lives Matter sign in their yard." This ain't just Google, they're just the example I'm talking about right now.
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    I suspect what google is actually doing is whatever they think is best to keep their advertisers happy. It’s that simple.
  - woopwoop 6y ago
    This is extremely vague.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Google isn't perfect but I think the real deal will be the anti-trust cases against Amazon. Search for "Google Nest Mini" on Amazon and the top result is an Echo Dot followed by dozens of accessories for the Google Nest Mini but no Google Nest Minis.
- lykr0n 6y ago
  Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Uber, and others as well. They all need to be broken up and have restrictions imposed on them. Apple is the only company I can see that won't be hit.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
    Apple hasn't been perfect with the app store. I think Microsoft ironically is best positioned for success when the government clamps down on user data abuses and big-tech antitrust.
  - habitue 6y ago
    Apple has made some very anti-competitive moves
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > Apple is the only company I can see that won't be hit. This is kind of astonishing logic. The obvious case against Apple is that they control totally the market for iOS apps, but even if you take the Apple supporter's argument that you should use the overall app market (i.e. including Android apps), even though they can't run on the same devices, Apple would still have more of the overall phone app market than Amazon has of the online retail market. And yet Amazon is a problematic monopoly and Apple isn't?
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > Search for "Google Nest Mini" on Amazon and the top result is an Echo Dot followed by dozens of accessories for the Google Nest Mini but no Google Nest Minis. Type this into Google: site:amazon.com google nest mini The results are basically the same as you're describing. Maybe Amazon just doesn't sell it?

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Big Tech marshals a right-leaning army of allies for antitrust fight “Status quo elites marshal an army from the faction defined by defending the power of status quo elites for fight that might threaten their power” has to be, at least very nearly, the most dog-bites-purpose-built-dog-chew-toy story in the history of news. The unusual aspect of this is that the antitrust threat comes from the far right largely as retaliation for platforms being insufficiently accommodating to the far right, not that the defenders are the classic center-right-to-solid-right defenders of entrenched corporate power.

wmf 6y ago
But will the employees revolt? Or will they think the ends justify the means?
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Google routinely funds the campaigns of far right US politicians and pays lip service to social justice issues. The latter has historically been sufficient to appease the employees.
  - lol2143651 6y ago
    """far-right""" ie. Positions everyone supported 15-25 years ago.

vmception 6y ago

The key sign of a sector's maturity is its presence on both/all sides of the aisle. I never go into another country thinking "wait did you guys just elect extremists because if so that makes me not want to do business here" so why would I treat America differently? When people use the term "virtue signaling" as a criticism of an organization's actions, it is based on the observation that the same organizations doing it are involved in plenty of other countries and didn't consider the political outcomes at all, only the convenience of what is possible in that country. Ireland, Cayman Islands, Netherlands are part of the standard cocktail, and when the head of state is rolling out a red carpet, I do not care how they got there.

busterarm 6y ago

The "right-leaning army" is just toll-paying to try and make this go away. Aside from Warren, the right is where the anti-trust charges are coming from. It's like getting pulled over in a small town -- you pay a lot into the local economy to make the ticket disappear.

rayiner 6y ago
No, "breaking up big tech" fits squarely into the left's anti-corporate narrative: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-tech-factbox/where-us-presidential-candidates-stand-on-breaking-up-big-tech-idUSKBN1ZN16C https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-tech-factbox... > Biden slammed big tech companies in a January interview with the New York Times, saying he had “never been a fan of Facebook” and arguing that online platforms should not be allowed immunity for content posted by users. > Warren is leading the charge to break up big tech companies on the grounds they hold outsized influence and stifle competition. > Sanders, who frequently criticizes corporate influence, has also called for the breakup of big tech companies such as Facebook and Amazon. Make no mistake, this isn't the Clintons' party anymore (or it won't be for much longer). The young blood hates business and corporations and is pulling the whole party in that direction.
- busterarm 6y ago
  And Warren, whom I specifically mentioned, is the only one of those with both the right political office and sufficient motivation to see through doing something about it. Sanders hasn't gotten anything meaningful done as a legislator for pretty much his whole career and Biden at this point will say anything that his handlers put in front of him. As for your comment about it being in their narrative, don't forget: https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close-relationship-with-the-obama-white-house-in-two-charts/ https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close...
  - rayiner 6y ago
    The question is will President Biden act on anything that his handlers put in front of him.

deleted 6y ago

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rayiner 6y ago

"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Being in the good graces of the left isn't something you can count on. The fact that you got rich by making products people want and need and made peoples' live better is something that will be forgotten as soon as its politically convenient. Given which way the winds are blowing, "Big Tech" isn't making a mistake by trying to make some "right-leaning" friends.

chrisco255 6y ago
Gotta say, as a right leaning individual, they've got no support from me and I won't forget the censorship or selective targeting of conservatives. I'm as pro-capitalism as it gets but when I see freedom of speech threatened in the way that social media and big tech companies have been wont to do these days, I will not support their defense. They can be broken up just like Ma Bell and maybe we'll all be better off for it.
- root_axis 6y ago
  I hear about the supposed selective targeting of conservatives all the time, but don't really see any evidence for it. Every well known conservative has a huge following on Twitter or YouTube. People sometimes point to Alex Jones as an example but he was clearly banned for smearing the parents of murdered Newtown children. I'm not saying that big tech doesn't lean left, but I don't see evidence that they target people just for being conservative.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Yeah, they fact check or block obvious parody tweets that are pro-conservative like the "racist baby" parody tweet a few weeks ago. They arbitrarily inject warning labels on Trump tweets while ignoring anti-cop tweets calling for violence and destruction (not just this year, going back to 2016 even [1]). The head of Twitter's Head of Site Integrity had this to say about red states: “I’m just saying,” he tweeted in November 2016, “we fly over those states that voted for a racist tangerine for a reason.” It doesn't just lean left. It actively hates, demeans and silences the right. [1] https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/737721?section=Headline&keywords=Anti-Police-Tweets-Surge-Twitter&year=2016&month=07&date=08&id=737721 https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/737721?section=Hea...

olivermarks 6y ago

Although various individuals from the conservative with a small 'c' world plus libertarians are cited in this article, the arguments put forth here are for me another example of a misunderstanding of what 'right leaning' might mean in this era. Proponents and builders of surveillance capitalism and associated global data gathering for corporate and state uses tend to lean 'left', as in neo liberal left. The older tradition of conservatism tends to be much more interested in personal privacy and respect for the individual. Example: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/facebook-and-google-must-be-regulated-now/ https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/facebook-an... Neo conservatives and neoliberals (the UK Guardian is a good example of globalist neo liberal ideas) are largely the same thing with some nuances. Just as there are various flavors of 'left' this is also true of the 'right'.

pmoriarty 6y ago
"Proponents and builders of surveillance capitalism and associated global data gathering for corporate and state uses tend to lean 'left', as in neo liberal left." Neoliberalism is a right wing ideology, not a left wing one. ""Neoliberalism" is contemporarily used to refer to market-oriented reform policies such as "eliminating price controls, deregulating capital markets, lowering trade barriers" and reducing state influence in the economy, especially through privatization and austerity."[1] This is pretty much the opposite from what those on the left aim for. Those on the left want nationalization, not privitazation, regulation of capital markets, not deregulation, price controls, not their elimination, and more state influence in the economy, not less. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal
- mola 6y ago
  Yes, and since the eighties the American Left embraced neoliberalism whole heatedly. Then leaned into progressiveness inorder to differentiate itself. So yeah, now we have flavors of neoliberalism.
  - olivermarks 6y ago
    @pmoriarty There is little to choose between Republican and Democrat politics in the US, they are both merely flavors of neoliberalism/neocon policies as @mola identifies. There are other branches of the left and right but they are suppressed, ignored or slandered in the corporate media. Silicon valley corporate political allegiances are a good example of neoliberalism, currently wrapped in identity politics

microDude 6y ago

I think about this all the time: Would it be possible to change the anti-trust laws so that companies can not merge or be acquired if the sum of their assets and revenue exceeds a set dollar figure adjusted for inflation? If A(assets + revenue) + B(assets + revenue) >= $, then not allowed to merge. This will promote competition from upstarts and increase the efficiency of these companies by preventing them from gobbling up every new market.