5 ms·

This summer I was supposed to go on a week long backcountry hike with a youth group. The youth would be split into multiple teams and they wanted an adult with

This summer I was supposed to go on a week long backcountry hike with a youth group. The youth would be split into multiple teams and they wanted an adult with a ham radio to be with each team. I volunteered to get a license since there was only one adult who already had his license and was experienced with ham radio. Getting the license was interesting. I’ve never studied engineering or electronics and a lot of the test was things like being able to read circuit schematics, understanding how inductors/capacitors/tranformers/etc. work, learning ohms law and the power law and being able to solve equations with them, learning laws around ham radio, etc. What you don’t learn as part of getting a license is what do you do after you have a license. Where do you buy equipment? What kind of equipment do you need? How do you use a radio? What do all the buttons on the radio do? Etc. I asked someone about this and they said I needed to join my local club to learn this stuff. But, I don’t want to join a club. I have a family, 2 jobs, home remodeling, and various hobbies (woodworking, drawing, reading, board games, baking, gardening, etc.) The last thing I have time for is to join a club ;-) So I’m in this weird spot where I have a license, but don’t actually know what to do with it. Due to the pandemic, the youth trip was cancelled. But it may be rescheduled for a future year. I’ll need to figure all this stuff out before then.

thepangolino 6y ago
What’s the actual point of having to learn all that for the license? What’s the actual point for the license in the first place?
- irrational 6y ago
  The license is an FCC requirement. They are also the ones who come up with the test questions. You would have to ask them. I can understand why they would want me to understand the laws governing ham radio. I don’t understand why I need to be able to read a schematic diagram to get a license. I assume that if I was going to build my own equipment that I would need to know a lot more than what I needed to learn to pass the test.
  - formerly_proven 6y ago
    > The license is an FCC requirement. Technically yes, but these requirements are pretty much the same globally, because they're copy-pasted from the ITU. Ham radio is practically governed by international law and quite possibly the field with the least diverse regulations in the world.
  - tzs 6y ago
    > I can understand why they would want me to understand the laws governing ham radio. I don’t understand why I need to be able to read a schematic diagram to get a license. You need to consider the big picture. Ham radio is just one of several radio services. They have different licensing requirements depending on their purpose and/or who is meant to use them. For services that are aimed at people who just want to communicate, getting a license won't involve anything like schematic diagrams--if a license is even required. The ham radio service's target is radio geeks. Hams are given considerably more leeway in what they can do with radio than are users of most other services, and so the licensing requirements include more things concerning the underlying technology than you need to just operate a radio reasonably.
    - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
      >For services that are aimed at people who just want to communicate, getting a license won't involve anything like schematic diagrams--if a license is even required. For people who might be interested in what those 'unlicensed' services are, they include: - FRS (the Family Radio Service[0]), which is typified by the sort of $20 bubble pack radios you can buy at a sporting goods store; - MURS (the Multi-Use Radio Service[1]), which is common in commercial radios used by e.g. staff at big box stores; - CBRS (the Citizens Band Radio Service[2]), which is probably familiar to most from "any movie involving truck drivers". These services may have licensing/approval rules for equipment, but not for individuals using them. [0] https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/family-radio-service-frs https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-divis... [1] https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/multi-use-radio-service-murs https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-divis... [2] https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/citizens-band-radio-service-cbrs https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-divis...
- kwk1 6y ago
  > What’s the actual point for the license in the first place? The electromagnetic spectrum is a limited resource; an amateur radio license is a license to do certain kinds of experiments in the spectrum. The kind of activity that makes up these experiments when done by someone who doesn't know what they're doing has the potential to cause harm which is hugely disproportionate to the amount of effort it would take to do it. While it's possible to pinpoint individual offenders, if unlicensed activity was widespread then the ability to do so would be overwhelmed.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    In practice though lots of 'HAM's' use their license as an access ticket to a slightly more elitist version of CB radio. The number of people that actually move the needle by doing experiments is dwindling year by year.
    - GekkePrutser 6y ago
      Not just more elitist, also a lot more capable of course. With 4W FM on 11m you're not going to make it across the world (unless in exceptional conditions). But I agree this was never the intention of the license.
      - jimktrains2 6y ago
        nitpick: CB is AM or SSB, not FM. Aside: 4W is for AM. You can do a little more (12W iirc) on SSB because it's spread more evenly across the bandwidth being used.
        GekkePrutser 6y ago
        Ahh I suppose it is in the US. Here in EU it's FM actually. AM and SSB are forbidden. But I know some people import "President" rigs to use it anyway, as the band is hardly policed at all these days.
        6y ago
- etage3 6y ago
  Speaking for France, but I suspect it is the same elsewhere: back in the day, the license exam was to build your own radio and operate it in front of an inspector, so it might be a remnant of that era. You also need to know this stuff to set up antennas.
- jimhefferon 6y ago
  One of the arguments for allowing operators to have part of the spectrum is to help build a pool of technically knowledgable, and practically capable, people in the population.
amatecha 6y ago
I've actually learned quite a lot just by listening into my local VHF/UHF repeaters with a USB-connected Software-Defined Radio (SDR). Very easy to set up and you can pick up lots of neat stuff other than voice (like weather satellites and image transmissions (SSTV)). If you use Twitter or the like there are lots of people regularly posting about neat stuff as well (look for hashtags like #amateurradio, #vhf, #hamradio etc.) ... Thing is, amateur radio is a really deep universe and there's almost no end to how much stuff you can learn or experiment with or try, so it takes a while to get a feel for things and know what you want out of it. You say you have a lot of hobbies - this can so easily be another one, a potentially massively-time-consuming one hahaha :) Since you're probably intending just fairly short-range group<->group communication you probably want a typical handheld VHF radio. An "HT" as it's often called, or "handie-talkie". You can get cheap ones as low as like $50 but more often around $100. Baofeng makes the cheapest ones (I got one for $20), but they may not be legal to transmit with in your region, depends on where you're located. I only use one to listen for trucks on logging roads, or as a backup emergency radio. You won't really need digital modes like DMR or D-Star, in my opinion. In terms of how to use, the radios always come with comprehensive manuals that explain all the functions and how to use them. I learned everything I need to know to use my radio from the manual. You can probably buy one used, or scour some forums to know what the most reputable radio equipment vendors are. It's definitely a lot easier to get into this stuff if you know someone who's already into it, as everyone is into radio for different things. That said, ARRL has a decent "Get on the Air" site which you might find useful! Check it: http://www.arrl.org/get-on-the-air http://www.arrl.org/get-on-the-air Hope this helps a bit, even if it's just some general info... Can answer other questions if you have some. :)
- irrational 6y ago
  Thank you! What are reputable brands for HTs around $100?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - amatecha 6y ago
ianpenney 6y ago
Get a Radioddity GD-77 and an MMDVM hotspot and install https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/OpenGD77 https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/OpenGD77 Should keep you busy and learning!
tzs 6y ago
I'm not sure ham radio is the right choice for that application. My first thought would be FRS (Family Radio Service). No licensing or testing is required to use them The radios are small hand held transceivers with 22 channels. The radios are $10-40 each. A step up from FRS is GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service). It is similar to FRS, but had 30 channels (the 22 of FRS plus 8 more), higher power limits, and does require a licenses. GMRS users are allowed to talk with FRS users on their shared channels. A GMRS license does not require any testing. You just fill out a form and pay a fee (around $85, I believe). It's good for 10 years.
- FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
  The big advantage of ham radios over FRS is repeaters, which greatly increase your ability to contact somebody in an emergency if you are hiking. Of course, this depends on a repeater being line of sight.
- amatecha 6y ago
  Ah yeah I was thinking of that as well (FRS/GMRS), but it's a bit less versatile as someone else mentioned (no repeaters, less range). A full-on HT isn't much more pricy, and in fact you can transmit/receive on all the same frequencies anyways (IIRC). That said, in Canada you don't need a license to use GMRS (up to 2 watts) which is pretty awesome. A family member of mine has a bunch of GMRS radios which they take up for offroading, hunting, etc. They do have fairly decent range (~2km), especially in more open fields and so on. In mountainous or heavily-forested areas, not so much haha :) The low barrier to entry here in Canada makes them a great solution for casual use, going on a family getaway in the outdoors or so on.
znpy 6y ago
you probably would have been fine with a walkie-talkie or some kind of pmr-466. you being not interested in joining a club is not a good reason to blame the certification. the certification is about being able to evaluate components to buy, both off-the shelf and for self-building.
- 1996 6y ago
  About PMR466 and innovative phones, check ulefone.com: - their previous "armor 3WT" does PMR-466 and traditional VHF with 2W on 400-470MHz and feature a 10 Ah battery : https://www.ulefone.com/armor-3wt.html?PageName=specs https://www.ulefone.com/armor-3wt.html?PageName=specs - their latest "armor" does FLIR thermal imaging and endoscopy (currently on the homepage)
wrycoder 6y ago
You should join the ARRL. That will put you in contact with the information you need, and other hams, if you choose. They have a new magazine specifically for newbies: http://www.arrl.org/On-the-Air-Magazine http://www.arrl.org/On-the-Air-Magazine Ham radio is a very diverse activity. Some hams prefer the technical end, others the social aspects. You'll find your preference once you get started.
- wrycoder 6y ago
  To follow up, I'd also suggest browsing around this fellow's website to get an idea of the range of activities pursued by a ham interested in VHF/UHF. https://www.k0nr.com/wordpress/ https://www.k0nr.com/wordpress/
emilfihlman 6y ago
>But, I don’t want to join a club. This is self inflicted silliness on your part. Joining a club means access to online discussion as part of the club, ie what you'd do anyways.
hugs 6y ago
Two words: You Tube The answers to all your questions are there. (You don't have to join a club.) Lots of videos for people in your situation. One example: "The first ham radio you should buy" by Ham Radio Crash Course: https://youtu.be/A4Udu-WdwK0 https://youtu.be/A4Udu-WdwK0 fwiw, I also got into radio for the same reason as you. A few years ago, on our trip to Isle Royale National Park, one of the other adult leaders had an emergency (broken foot; needing National Park Service rescue...) and we didn't have a ham radio. We did have a satellite communicator (Garmin inReach), so we weren't completely screwed. But from now on, I'd like to always have a ham radio (in addition to the inReach) on me for future trips.
swebs 6y ago
>I asked someone about this and they said I needed to join my local club to learn this stuff. But, I don’t want to join a club /diy/ always has an amateur radio general thread up if you want to ask questions. https://boards.4channel.org/diy/thread/1855439 https://boards.4channel.org/diy/thread/1855439

thepangolino 6y ago

What’s the actual point of having to learn all that for the license? What’s the actual point for the license in the first place?

irrational 6y ago
The license is an FCC requirement. They are also the ones who come up with the test questions. You would have to ask them. I can understand why they would want me to understand the laws governing ham radio. I don’t understand why I need to be able to read a schematic diagram to get a license. I assume that if I was going to build my own equipment that I would need to know a lot more than what I needed to learn to pass the test.
- formerly_proven 6y ago
  > The license is an FCC requirement. Technically yes, but these requirements are pretty much the same globally, because they're copy-pasted from the ITU. Ham radio is practically governed by international law and quite possibly the field with the least diverse regulations in the world.
- tzs 6y ago
  > I can understand why they would want me to understand the laws governing ham radio. I don’t understand why I need to be able to read a schematic diagram to get a license. You need to consider the big picture. Ham radio is just one of several radio services. They have different licensing requirements depending on their purpose and/or who is meant to use them. For services that are aimed at people who just want to communicate, getting a license won't involve anything like schematic diagrams--if a license is even required. The ham radio service's target is radio geeks. Hams are given considerably more leeway in what they can do with radio than are users of most other services, and so the licensing requirements include more things concerning the underlying technology than you need to just operate a radio reasonably.
  - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
    >For services that are aimed at people who just want to communicate, getting a license won't involve anything like schematic diagrams--if a license is even required. For people who might be interested in what those 'unlicensed' services are, they include: - FRS (the Family Radio Service[0]), which is typified by the sort of $20 bubble pack radios you can buy at a sporting goods store; - MURS (the Multi-Use Radio Service[1]), which is common in commercial radios used by e.g. staff at big box stores; - CBRS (the Citizens Band Radio Service[2]), which is probably familiar to most from "any movie involving truck drivers". These services may have licensing/approval rules for equipment, but not for individuals using them. [0] https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/family-radio-service-frs https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-divis... [1] https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/multi-use-radio-service-murs https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-divis... [2] https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/citizens-band-radio-service-cbrs https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-divis...
kwk1 6y ago
> What’s the actual point for the license in the first place? The electromagnetic spectrum is a limited resource; an amateur radio license is a license to do certain kinds of experiments in the spectrum. The kind of activity that makes up these experiments when done by someone who doesn't know what they're doing has the potential to cause harm which is hugely disproportionate to the amount of effort it would take to do it. While it's possible to pinpoint individual offenders, if unlicensed activity was widespread then the ability to do so would be overwhelmed.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  In practice though lots of 'HAM's' use their license as an access ticket to a slightly more elitist version of CB radio. The number of people that actually move the needle by doing experiments is dwindling year by year.
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    Not just more elitist, also a lot more capable of course. With 4W FM on 11m you're not going to make it across the world (unless in exceptional conditions). But I agree this was never the intention of the license.
    - jimktrains2 6y ago
      nitpick: CB is AM or SSB, not FM. Aside: 4W is for AM. You can do a little more (12W iirc) on SSB because it's spread more evenly across the bandwidth being used.
      - GekkePrutser 6y ago
        Ahh I suppose it is in the US. Here in EU it's FM actually. AM and SSB are forbidden. But I know some people import "President" rigs to use it anyway, as the band is hardly policed at all these days.
        6y ago
etage3 6y ago
Speaking for France, but I suspect it is the same elsewhere: back in the day, the license exam was to build your own radio and operate it in front of an inspector, so it might be a remnant of that era. You also need to know this stuff to set up antennas.
jimhefferon 6y ago
One of the arguments for allowing operators to have part of the spectrum is to help build a pool of technically knowledgable, and practically capable, people in the population.

amatecha 6y ago

I've actually learned quite a lot just by listening into my local VHF/UHF repeaters with a USB-connected Software-Defined Radio (SDR). Very easy to set up and you can pick up lots of neat stuff other than voice (like weather satellites and image transmissions (SSTV)). If you use Twitter or the like there are lots of people regularly posting about neat stuff as well (look for hashtags like #amateurradio, #vhf, #hamradio etc.) ... Thing is, amateur radio is a really deep universe and there's almost no end to how much stuff you can learn or experiment with or try, so it takes a while to get a feel for things and know what you want out of it. You say you have a lot of hobbies - this can so easily be another one, a potentially massively-time-consuming one hahaha :) Since you're probably intending just fairly short-range group<->group communication you probably want a typical handheld VHF radio. An "HT" as it's often called, or "handie-talkie". You can get cheap ones as low as like $50 but more often around $100. Baofeng makes the cheapest ones (I got one for $20), but they may not be legal to transmit with in your region, depends on where you're located. I only use one to listen for trucks on logging roads, or as a backup emergency radio. You won't really need digital modes like DMR or D-Star, in my opinion. In terms of how to use, the radios always come with comprehensive manuals that explain all the functions and how to use them. I learned everything I need to know to use my radio from the manual. You can probably buy one used, or scour some forums to know what the most reputable radio equipment vendors are. It's definitely a lot easier to get into this stuff if you know someone who's already into it, as everyone is into radio for different things. That said, ARRL has a decent "Get on the Air" site which you might find useful! Check it: http://www.arrl.org/get-on-the-air http://www.arrl.org/get-on-the-air Hope this helps a bit, even if it's just some general info... Can answer other questions if you have some. :)

irrational 6y ago
Thank you! What are reputable brands for HTs around $100?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- amatecha 6y ago

ianpenney 6y ago

Get a Radioddity GD-77 and an MMDVM hotspot and install https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/OpenGD77 https://github.com/rogerclarkmelbourne/OpenGD77 Should keep you busy and learning!

tzs 6y ago

I'm not sure ham radio is the right choice for that application. My first thought would be FRS (Family Radio Service). No licensing or testing is required to use them The radios are small hand held transceivers with 22 channels. The radios are $10-40 each. A step up from FRS is GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service). It is similar to FRS, but had 30 channels (the 22 of FRS plus 8 more), higher power limits, and does require a licenses. GMRS users are allowed to talk with FRS users on their shared channels. A GMRS license does not require any testing. You just fill out a form and pay a fee (around $85, I believe). It's good for 10 years.

FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
The big advantage of ham radios over FRS is repeaters, which greatly increase your ability to contact somebody in an emergency if you are hiking. Of course, this depends on a repeater being line of sight.
amatecha 6y ago
Ah yeah I was thinking of that as well (FRS/GMRS), but it's a bit less versatile as someone else mentioned (no repeaters, less range). A full-on HT isn't much more pricy, and in fact you can transmit/receive on all the same frequencies anyways (IIRC). That said, in Canada you don't need a license to use GMRS (up to 2 watts) which is pretty awesome. A family member of mine has a bunch of GMRS radios which they take up for offroading, hunting, etc. They do have fairly decent range (~2km), especially in more open fields and so on. In mountainous or heavily-forested areas, not so much haha :) The low barrier to entry here in Canada makes them a great solution for casual use, going on a family getaway in the outdoors or so on.

znpy 6y ago

you probably would have been fine with a walkie-talkie or some kind of pmr-466. you being not interested in joining a club is not a good reason to blame the certification. the certification is about being able to evaluate components to buy, both off-the shelf and for self-building.

1996 6y ago
About PMR466 and innovative phones, check ulefone.com: - their previous "armor 3WT" does PMR-466 and traditional VHF with 2W on 400-470MHz and feature a 10 Ah battery : https://www.ulefone.com/armor-3wt.html?PageName=specs https://www.ulefone.com/armor-3wt.html?PageName=specs - their latest "armor" does FLIR thermal imaging and endoscopy (currently on the homepage)

wrycoder 6y ago

You should join the ARRL. That will put you in contact with the information you need, and other hams, if you choose. They have a new magazine specifically for newbies: http://www.arrl.org/On-the-Air-Magazine http://www.arrl.org/On-the-Air-Magazine Ham radio is a very diverse activity. Some hams prefer the technical end, others the social aspects. You'll find your preference once you get started.

wrycoder 6y ago
To follow up, I'd also suggest browsing around this fellow's website to get an idea of the range of activities pursued by a ham interested in VHF/UHF. https://www.k0nr.com/wordpress/ https://www.k0nr.com/wordpress/

emilfihlman 6y ago

>But, I don’t want to join a club. This is self inflicted silliness on your part. Joining a club means access to online discussion as part of the club, ie what you'd do anyways.

hugs 6y ago

Two words: You Tube The answers to all your questions are there. (You don't have to join a club.) Lots of videos for people in your situation. One example: "The first ham radio you should buy" by Ham Radio Crash Course: https://youtu.be/A4Udu-WdwK0 https://youtu.be/A4Udu-WdwK0 fwiw, I also got into radio for the same reason as you. A few years ago, on our trip to Isle Royale National Park, one of the other adult leaders had an emergency (broken foot; needing National Park Service rescue...) and we didn't have a ham radio. We did have a satellite communicator (Garmin inReach), so we weren't completely screwed. But from now on, I'd like to always have a ham radio (in addition to the inReach) on me for future trips.

swebs 6y ago

>I asked someone about this and they said I needed to join my local club to learn this stuff. But, I don’t want to join a club /diy/ always has an amateur radio general thread up if you want to ask questions. https://boards.4channel.org/diy/thread/1855439 https://boards.4channel.org/diy/thread/1855439