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Just because the genocide didn't fully succeed in exterminating every last Native American doesn't mean it somehow wasn't a "systematic mass genocide", for the

Just because the genocide didn't fully succeed in exterminating every last Native American doesn't mean it somehow wasn't a "systematic mass genocide", for the same reason that just because Nazi Germany didn't successfully wipe every last Jew off the face of the Earth doesn't mean that wasn't a "systematic mass genocide", or how just because the VRS didn't exterminate every last Bosniak doesn't mean the Bosnian genocide wasn't a genocide. Like, there's nothing mixed about that message at all. The United States systematically displaced or outright exterminated countless Native Americans, and yet some did survive and will hopefully have a chance to recover from that genocide and reclaim some of their lost lands.

Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
Nazi Germany didn't wipe out every last jew because they lost the war. Had nobody stopped Germany I don't see a reason why they wouldn't have succeeded. Supposing the U.S. did institute a systemic native genocide policy in the past, what prevented it from succeeding? Why are there still natives?
- yellowapple 6y ago
  > Had nobody stopped Germany I don't see a reason why they wouldn't have succeeded. Barring complete world domination they would have no chance of doing so, given the existence of Jews beyond Germany's reach (including those who escaped the Holocaust). Yet, we still consider that a systemic mass genocide. Same deal with the US and its eradication of in some cases entire tribes; just because the US stopped engaging in systemic mass genocide (for whatever reason) or otherwise didn't succeed in killing or sterilizing every last native doesn't mean my country didn't engage in systemic mass genocide at all. Hell, even by the incorrectly-narrow definition you seem to be using, there are quite a few tribes that are nowadays entirely extinct, e.g. the Karankawa people in Texas and the Yahi people in California.
BurningFrog 6y ago
Nazi Germany did wipe out almost every last jew in the areas they controlled, in the ~4 years of the Holocaust. 90% of Poland's 3 million jews were killed. After centuries of supposed genocide, the US Native American population is over 6 million, which is probably similar to what it was before colonization. The biggest massacre I'm aware of¹ in the US is the 146 killed at Wounded Knee in 1890. The US had complete military superiority, and could have killed everyone at will, but mostly didn't. If this is a genocide, it's a very poorly executed one. What makes this a bit confusing is that first contact did often result in 90% of the native population dying in both North and South America. But that was an unintentional and unforeseen effect of old world diseases hitting new world populations that had completely unprepared immune systems. Maybe the biggest "random" event in world history! ¹ Interested in learning of any bigger ones!

Acrobatic_Road 6y ago

Nazi Germany didn't wipe out every last jew because they lost the war. Had nobody stopped Germany I don't see a reason why they wouldn't have succeeded. Supposing the U.S. did institute a systemic native genocide policy in the past, what prevented it from succeeding? Why are there still natives?

yellowapple 6y ago
> Had nobody stopped Germany I don't see a reason why they wouldn't have succeeded. Barring complete world domination they would have no chance of doing so, given the existence of Jews beyond Germany's reach (including those who escaped the Holocaust). Yet, we still consider that a systemic mass genocide. Same deal with the US and its eradication of in some cases entire tribes; just because the US stopped engaging in systemic mass genocide (for whatever reason) or otherwise didn't succeed in killing or sterilizing every last native doesn't mean my country didn't engage in systemic mass genocide at all. Hell, even by the incorrectly-narrow definition you seem to be using, there are quite a few tribes that are nowadays entirely extinct, e.g. the Karankawa people in Texas and the Yahi people in California.

BurningFrog 6y ago

Nazi Germany did wipe out almost every last jew in the areas they controlled, in the ~4 years of the Holocaust. 90% of Poland's 3 million jews were killed. After centuries of supposed genocide, the US Native American population is over 6 million, which is probably similar to what it was before colonization. The biggest massacre I'm aware of¹ in the US is the 146 killed at Wounded Knee in 1890. The US had complete military superiority, and could have killed everyone at will, but mostly didn't. If this is a genocide, it's a very poorly executed one. What makes this a bit confusing is that first contact did often result in 90% of the native population dying in both North and South America. But that was an unintentional and unforeseen effect of old world diseases hitting new world populations that had completely unprepared immune systems. Maybe the biggest "random" event in world history! ¹ Interested in learning of any bigger ones!