4 ms·

It is appalling how despite the availability of information online, people still choose not to verify what they hear on the MSM. Here is the link to the Citizen

by 0xFFFE 6y ago

It is appalling how despite the availability of information online, people still choose not to verify what they hear on the MSM. Here is the link to the Citizenship Amendment Act of 2019 on GOI website. It's only a 2 page document. http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf It was amended to accommodate persecuted minorities from *neighboring countries" of India. It has nothing to do with the Citizens of India.

d3nj4l 6y ago
This is blatant disinformation by omitting context. The CAA itself is discriminatory, since it does not apply to muslims, but in the context of the National Register of Citizens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens) it becomes even more sinister. The NRC requires people to prove their citizenship through documentation, which is very difficult for large parts of India's population, who might be straight up illiterate or lack any kind of documentation whatsoever. The CAA makes it easier for non-Muslims to claim citizenship while Muslims slip through the cracks; that is the point of contention.
- nsenifty 6y ago
  > The CAA makes it easier for non-Muslims to claim citizenship while Muslims slip through the cracks; that is the point of contention. No it doesn't. Here's the relevant part of CAA(http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf) that mentions non-Muslims > Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014 If you are a non-Muslim who wants to get Indian citizenship under CAA, you must prove (1) you are a citizen of one of these neighboring countries and (2) you entered India before 2014. It is just not enough to not have papers to "slip through the cracks".
  - thewhitetulip 6y ago
    Dude, you literally are spreading false information and you're literally quoting one thing on one line and contradicting it on the second line. CAA makes it easier for non Muslims. you say 'no it doesn't' and then you literaly cite this: > Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014 Yeah, it specifically mentions Hindu, SIkh Buddhist Jain Parsi Christian. It leaves out MUSLIMS. Let's go over. the law specifically excludes Muslims. What does it mean? it fast tracks citizenship of ALL except MUSLIMS. meaning? it excludes Muslims now comes the NRC, in this exercise, in Assam, they asked everyone to prove their citizenship by showing their grandfather's documents or ancesteral land documents. grandmother or parents document is not valid because what if your grandparents are illegal immigrants. your documents like voter ID was NOT A VALID DOCUMENT FOR CITIZENSHIP because you have to prove that your GRANDFATHER WAS NOT AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. Assam NRC took thousands of crores of money to undertake. Just imagine what'll happen when everyone in India is asked to prove their grandfather's citizenship.
    - nsenifty 6y ago
      Nationwide NRC is different from NRC for Assam. Nationwide NRC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens) is mandated by 2003 Amendment of Citizenship act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_(Amendment)_Act,_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_(Amendment)_Act,_2...). Look at the definition of illegal migrants there. It doesn't mention anything about your grandfather's papers. Assam NRC is an entirely different beast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens_for_Assam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens_...). This was conducted as part of 2013 Supreme Court order. The entire process and the rules was prescribed and monitored by the Supreme court of India. The definition of illegal migrant is a far more stringent here since it hinges on 1971 Bangladeshi refugee crisis and subsequent bloody protests by the Assamese people.
      - rbar 6y ago
- thewhitetulip 6y ago
  > The NRC requires people to prove their citizenship through documentation, which is very difficult for large parts of India's population Dude, you have to prove using your grandfather's documents. All your documents are suspect because they assume everyone is an illegal immigrant until you can prove land records or if you can prove that your grandfather was born in India. I don't own land and I don't even know the birth place of my grandfather, I surely don't have his records, do I? rarely anyone but the filthy rich upper class people like kings who have family trees extending to 100s of years have that. this is what happened in Assam. you had to prove your grandfather's documents, grandmother's didn't work because what if she was an illegal immigrant? These useless right wingers HAVE everyone's adhaar information and yet they assume everyone is an illegal immigrant until you prove otherwise
- quantummkv 6y ago
  > This is blatant disinformation by omitting context. The CAA itself is discriminatory, since it does not apply to muslims > The CAA makes it easier for non-Muslims to claim citizenship You see, first of all it's not the Muslims that are literally fighting[1] for their[2] lives[3] and culture[4][5] from crazed zealots in countries around India. And unlike some other religions, the Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists don't have any other country that they can call their homeland or can culturally identify with. Second, it does not stop Muslims from applying. Their applications will be processes as usual. It only accelerates the process for the people in need. As is the duty of any democratic country. And regarding the NRC, it's rumor mongering in it's purest form. There has been no official notification regarding when(if) it will be applied or how it will be applied. So just please stop with that like a responsible person. [1] - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/amritsar/after-another-conversion-pakistani-hindus-threaten-to-leave-country/articleshow/73410746.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/amritsar/after-anot... [2] - https://twitter.com/ExmuslimsOrg/status/1280267912360665090 https://twitter.com/ExmuslimsOrg/status/1280267912360665090 [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_gurdwara_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_gurdwara_attack [4] - https://www.timesnownews.com/international/article/your-heads-will-be-severed-and-fed-to-dogs-cleric-s-threat-to-those-supporting-hindu-temple-in-islamabad/617886 https://www.timesnownews.com/international/article/your-head... [5] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan
  - jeremysalwen 6y ago
    Please become more educated on this issue. Muslims are not a monolithic group, and being a Muslim does not protect you from persecution in Muslim majority countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Shi'ism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Shi'ism If the bill was meant to be secular, it could provide asylum for everyone suffering religious persecution, regardless of their religion. It clearly is designed to exclude muslims.
    - quantummkv 6y ago
      > If the bill was meant to be secular, it could provide asylum for everyone suffering religious persecution, regardless of their religion. It clearly is designed to exclude muslims. Here is the document in it's entirety - http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf. Please point out the relevant sections of the document where it is stated that Muslims will not be allowed to apply for asylum or that Muslims will not be granted asylum. It just accelerates the process for certain groups of people that are in more grave danger in the area. There's nothing wrong in that. Just because some groups are not mentioned for the accelerated process does not mean that they are excluded from the entire process.
- 0xFFFE 6y ago
  How does citing the official source of the truth become blatant disinformation? Did you read the Act? Your comment reads more like a rhetoric than a real argument based on logic and facts.
- shan503 6y ago
  The guidelines for a nation wide NRC have not been formulated. What you're pedaling is nothing more than a conspiracy theory
  - thewhitetulip 6y ago
    I never said guidelines have been formulated but the Modi govt has said so in SC that a country wide NRC is necessary "Centre Tells Supreme Court NRC Necessary, Contradicts Shah's 'No NRC' Declaration" link: https://thewire.in/government/caa-counter-affidavit-centre https://thewire.in/government/caa-counter-affidavit-centre
abtom 6y ago
I had the same mindset initially. The CAA in itself is benign. Simply reading the Act will not give you the perspective on how it is going to be implemented. The statements given by the Home Minister of India - who is also a senior member of the ruling party - will give you a better idea of the situation. The backlash due to the passing of the CAB led the Prime Minister to make multiple statements that directly contradict ones made by the Home Minister just a few months before[1]. This, along with the general attitude of senior party ministers[2] is leading the people to be (IMO rightly) concerned about the motives of the government. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEfaRmQIDU4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEfaRmQIDU4 [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCyBL8dBOEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCyBL8dBOEo

by 0xFFFE 6y ago

d3nj4l 6y ago

This is blatant disinformation by omitting context. The CAA itself is discriminatory, since it does not apply to muslims, but in the context of the National Register of Citizens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens) it becomes even more sinister. The NRC requires people to prove their citizenship through documentation, which is very difficult for large parts of India's population, who might be straight up illiterate or lack any kind of documentation whatsoever. The CAA makes it easier for non-Muslims to claim citizenship while Muslims slip through the cracks; that is the point of contention.

nsenifty 6y ago
> The CAA makes it easier for non-Muslims to claim citizenship while Muslims slip through the cracks; that is the point of contention. No it doesn't. Here's the relevant part of CAA(http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf) that mentions non-Muslims > Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014 If you are a non-Muslim who wants to get Indian citizenship under CAA, you must prove (1) you are a citizen of one of these neighboring countries and (2) you entered India before 2014. It is just not enough to not have papers to "slip through the cracks".
- thewhitetulip 6y ago
  Dude, you literally are spreading false information and you're literally quoting one thing on one line and contradicting it on the second line. CAA makes it easier for non Muslims. you say 'no it doesn't' and then you literaly cite this: > Provided that any person belonging to Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi or Christian community from Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan, who entered into India on or before the 31st day of December, 2014 Yeah, it specifically mentions Hindu, SIkh Buddhist Jain Parsi Christian. It leaves out MUSLIMS. Let's go over. the law specifically excludes Muslims. What does it mean? it fast tracks citizenship of ALL except MUSLIMS. meaning? it excludes Muslims now comes the NRC, in this exercise, in Assam, they asked everyone to prove their citizenship by showing their grandfather's documents or ancesteral land documents. grandmother or parents document is not valid because what if your grandparents are illegal immigrants. your documents like voter ID was NOT A VALID DOCUMENT FOR CITIZENSHIP because you have to prove that your GRANDFATHER WAS NOT AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. Assam NRC took thousands of crores of money to undertake. Just imagine what'll happen when everyone in India is asked to prove their grandfather's citizenship.
  - nsenifty 6y ago
    Nationwide NRC is different from NRC for Assam. Nationwide NRC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens) is mandated by 2003 Amendment of Citizenship act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_(Amendment)_Act,_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_(Amendment)_Act,_2...). Look at the definition of illegal migrants there. It doesn't mention anything about your grandfather's papers. Assam NRC is an entirely different beast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens_for_Assam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens_...). This was conducted as part of 2013 Supreme Court order. The entire process and the rules was prescribed and monitored by the Supreme court of India. The definition of illegal migrant is a far more stringent here since it hinges on 1971 Bangladeshi refugee crisis and subsequent bloody protests by the Assamese people.
    - rbar 6y ago
thewhitetulip 6y ago
> The NRC requires people to prove their citizenship through documentation, which is very difficult for large parts of India's population Dude, you have to prove using your grandfather's documents. All your documents are suspect because they assume everyone is an illegal immigrant until you can prove land records or if you can prove that your grandfather was born in India. I don't own land and I don't even know the birth place of my grandfather, I surely don't have his records, do I? rarely anyone but the filthy rich upper class people like kings who have family trees extending to 100s of years have that. this is what happened in Assam. you had to prove your grandfather's documents, grandmother's didn't work because what if she was an illegal immigrant? These useless right wingers HAVE everyone's adhaar information and yet they assume everyone is an illegal immigrant until you prove otherwise
quantummkv 6y ago
> This is blatant disinformation by omitting context. The CAA itself is discriminatory, since it does not apply to muslims > The CAA makes it easier for non-Muslims to claim citizenship You see, first of all it's not the Muslims that are literally fighting[1] for their[2] lives[3] and culture[4][5] from crazed zealots in countries around India. And unlike some other religions, the Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists don't have any other country that they can call their homeland or can culturally identify with. Second, it does not stop Muslims from applying. Their applications will be processes as usual. It only accelerates the process for the people in need. As is the duty of any democratic country. And regarding the NRC, it's rumor mongering in it's purest form. There has been no official notification regarding when(if) it will be applied or how it will be applied. So just please stop with that like a responsible person. [1] - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/amritsar/after-another-conversion-pakistani-hindus-threaten-to-leave-country/articleshow/73410746.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/amritsar/after-anot... [2] - https://twitter.com/ExmuslimsOrg/status/1280267912360665090 https://twitter.com/ExmuslimsOrg/status/1280267912360665090 [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_gurdwara_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_gurdwara_attack [4] - https://www.timesnownews.com/international/article/your-heads-will-be-severed-and-fed-to-dogs-cleric-s-threat-to-those-supporting-hindu-temple-in-islamabad/617886 https://www.timesnownews.com/international/article/your-head... [5] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan
- jeremysalwen 6y ago
  Please become more educated on this issue. Muslims are not a monolithic group, and being a Muslim does not protect you from persecution in Muslim majority countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Shi'ism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Shi'ism If the bill was meant to be secular, it could provide asylum for everyone suffering religious persecution, regardless of their religion. It clearly is designed to exclude muslims.
  - quantummkv 6y ago
    > If the bill was meant to be secular, it could provide asylum for everyone suffering religious persecution, regardless of their religion. It clearly is designed to exclude muslims. Here is the document in it's entirety - http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf. Please point out the relevant sections of the document where it is stated that Muslims will not be allowed to apply for asylum or that Muslims will not be granted asylum. It just accelerates the process for certain groups of people that are in more grave danger in the area. There's nothing wrong in that. Just because some groups are not mentioned for the accelerated process does not mean that they are excluded from the entire process.
0xFFFE 6y ago
How does citing the official source of the truth become blatant disinformation? Did you read the Act? Your comment reads more like a rhetoric than a real argument based on logic and facts.
shan503 6y ago
The guidelines for a nation wide NRC have not been formulated. What you're pedaling is nothing more than a conspiracy theory
- thewhitetulip 6y ago
  I never said guidelines have been formulated but the Modi govt has said so in SC that a country wide NRC is necessary "Centre Tells Supreme Court NRC Necessary, Contradicts Shah's 'No NRC' Declaration" link: https://thewire.in/government/caa-counter-affidavit-centre https://thewire.in/government/caa-counter-affidavit-centre

abtom 6y ago

I had the same mindset initially. The CAA in itself is benign. Simply reading the Act will not give you the perspective on how it is going to be implemented. The statements given by the Home Minister of India - who is also a senior member of the ruling party - will give you a better idea of the situation. The backlash due to the passing of the CAB led the Prime Minister to make multiple statements that directly contradict ones made by the Home Minister just a few months before[1]. This, along with the general attitude of senior party ministers[2] is leading the people to be (IMO rightly) concerned about the motives of the government. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEfaRmQIDU4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEfaRmQIDU4 [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCyBL8dBOEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCyBL8dBOEo