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Calling it "genocide" is one of the ways the hysteria manifests itself.

Retric 6y ago
No genocide is the correct term, the Chinese government is actively trying to destroy a group which is what genocide means. The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group.[4][5][6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide Chinese actions to reduce births for example are very well documented.
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  "Genocide" is a very serious term, and throwing it around lightly, as people are doing in this case, trivializes it.
  - hkmaxpro 6y ago
    What China is doing to Uighurs qualifies as genocide > [The atrocity in Xinjiang] very specifically meets one of the five criteria set forth by the United Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of Genocide from 1948, which specifically says the suppression of birth. https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-of-uighur-minorities-meets-u-n-definition-of-genocide-report-s https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-o... HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23739567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23739567
    - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
      You can redefine words if you want, but you're devaluing then in the process. In this case, people are doing this in order to whip up further hysteria. I recall in 2011, when Western media promoted false claims of genocide in Libya, in order to justify the bombing of the country and the overthrow of its government. Same thing in Iraq in 2003. There's a pattern here.
      - TulliusCicero 6y ago
        Ah yes, "redefining" them by quoting the United Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of Genocide from 1948.
        DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        If you're going to compare China's enforcement of the 2-3 child rule in Xinjiang to the Holocaust, then there has to be a new word to describe the Holocaust, because those two things do not belong in the same category. There are consequences to this sort of demonization. You're supporting a hysteria that has a good chance of leading to war.
        Retric 6y ago
        Hitler started with mass sterilization, the killing was secondary. Which is why the term is about more than just mass killings. In China forced abortions and mass sterilization are selective based on ethnicity. Combined with reeducation camps and differential taxation based on ethnicity and number of kids is not simply enforcing a policy. The Chinese government is even dealing with the excess male population from their previous one child policy and preferential marriage laws to eliminate an ethnic group. This is systematic genocide, even without the obvious mass graves.
        DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        The comparison to Hitler makes my point for me. This sort of hysteria is dangerous, because if you're saying that China is the same as the Third Reich, you're essentially calling for war. It would be interesting to hear how you compare the actual killing of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq by the United States to the Holocaust, given that you've now compared the 2-3 child policy to the Holocaust.

No genocide is the correct term, the Chinese government is actively trying to destroy a group which is what genocide means. The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group.[4][5][6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide Chinese actions to reduce births for example are very well documented.

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
"Genocide" is a very serious term, and throwing it around lightly, as people are doing in this case, trivializes it.
- hkmaxpro 6y ago
  What China is doing to Uighurs qualifies as genocide > [The atrocity in Xinjiang] very specifically meets one of the five criteria set forth by the United Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of Genocide from 1948, which specifically says the suppression of birth. https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-of-uighur-minorities-meets-u-n-definition-of-genocide-report-s https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-o... HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23739567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23739567
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    You can redefine words if you want, but you're devaluing then in the process. In this case, people are doing this in order to whip up further hysteria. I recall in 2011, when Western media promoted false claims of genocide in Libya, in order to justify the bombing of the country and the overthrow of its government. Same thing in Iraq in 2003. There's a pattern here.
    - TulliusCicero 6y ago
      Ah yes, "redefining" them by quoting the United Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of Genocide from 1948.
      - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        If you're going to compare China's enforcement of the 2-3 child rule in Xinjiang to the Holocaust, then there has to be a new word to describe the Holocaust, because those two things do not belong in the same category. There are consequences to this sort of demonization. You're supporting a hysteria that has a good chance of leading to war.
        Retric 6y ago
        Hitler started with mass sterilization, the killing was secondary. Which is why the term is about more than just mass killings. In China forced abortions and mass sterilization are selective based on ethnicity. Combined with reeducation camps and differential taxation based on ethnicity and number of kids is not simply enforcing a policy. The Chinese government is even dealing with the excess male population from their previous one child policy and preferential marriage laws to eliminate an ethnic group. This is systematic genocide, even without the obvious mass graves.
        DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        The comparison to Hitler makes my point for me. This sort of hysteria is dangerous, because if you're saying that China is the same as the Third Reich, you're essentially calling for war. It would be interesting to hear how you compare the actual killing of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq by the United States to the Holocaust, given that you've now compared the 2-3 child policy to the Holocaust.