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One thing people don't realize about the BLM and the Department of the Interior in general is that they maintain the world's largest airforce. This Airforce exi

One thing people don't realize about the BLM and the Department of the Interior in general is that they maintain the world's largest airforce. This Airforce exists mainly as a mountain rescue and forest firefighting unit(s). Also, because we're now in the 2020s, they are the worlds largest purchaser of drones, even beyond the military. A lot of fascinating, cutting edge stuff is going on at BLM and DoI.

jeffbee 6y ago
It doesn't bother me one bit that the BLM manages land. It's a major public benefit that we have so much information about our natural resources. I think the USDA soil survey, for example, a one of the great wonders of the information age. The thing that bothers me is how they lease out public lands essentially for free to stockmen who proceed to destroy the landscape.
- danans 6y ago
  > The thing that bothers me is how they lease out public lands essentially for free to stockmen who proceed to destroy the landscape. They are all just giving the consumer what they want - low cost meat - which requires a ton of land both for grazing and for growing animal feed. Asking them to raise the price on the stockmen is also to ask them to raise prices on consumers. I don't necessarily disagree with that idea, but (pun intended), the consumer has long been the holy cow of American politics.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    A vanishingly small percentage of beef comes from the lands under discussion. [0] The reason is simple: cattle were not evolved for the alpine desert. Consumers wouldn't even notice if cattle were outlawed completely on BLM land. Wildlife biologists certainly would notice! In reality, these policies are political shenanigans. No Republican wants to be the first to stop providing welfare to the Cliven Bundy types that one can find lurking under many cowboy hats. [0] https://beef2live.com/story-ranking-states-beef-cows-0-108181 https://beef2live.com/story-ranking-states-beef-cows-0-10818...
    - danans 6y ago
      > A vanishingly small percentage of beef comes from the lands under discussion. I don't doubt at all the environmental destruction being wrought. However, the land's use is supporting some market for beef though, or else why would the question of $1 leases to stockmen exist? Is it just that it's cheap and marginal (in both cost and quality) land that can be used for marginal production increases, or is it supporting some niche high cost beef sub-market based on its wilder place of production (high alpine beef)? It can't just all be a UBI scheme for alpine beef ranchers.
      - jessaustin 6y ago
        It can't just all be a UBI scheme for... Every one of my travels to western states and every conversation I've had with other cattlemen there and elsewhere implies that it is exactly that. Perhaps once upon a time it was something else, and as the situation changed our government didn't keep up. I imagine that numerous bureaucrats at BLM and other agencies have some personal interests in the disastrous way that things are done. Some call this a "principal-agent problem". Likewise, the various stupid wars we in USA fight aren't at all about our security or saving democracy or any of the other myths. Those are "UBI schemes" for armaments manufacturers and their employees in politics and the media.
        danans 6y ago
        The last sentence of my post should have read: "It can't just all be a UBI scheme for alpine beef ranchers, can it?" As in, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were, but haven't had the conversations you've had first hand.
        jeffbee 6y ago
        Main thing I’ve learned from reading about western water and land policy is if you ever think “it can’t be that!” maybe you’re just not using your imagination.
- hirundo 6y ago
  I'm surrounded by leased BLM land around here but the parts I've seen are not overgrazed. The lessees are very long term and their livelihood depends on the quality of the forage from year to year. If not overgrazed, cattle have a very positive effect on the landscape. They cultivate the ground with their hooves and excrete fertilizer and seeds. A well grazed lot grows more cow food than an ungrazed one. Even the ranches that focus on elk hunting graze cattle to improve the land for the elk.

jeffbee 6y ago

It doesn't bother me one bit that the BLM manages land. It's a major public benefit that we have so much information about our natural resources. I think the USDA soil survey, for example, a one of the great wonders of the information age. The thing that bothers me is how they lease out public lands essentially for free to stockmen who proceed to destroy the landscape.

danans 6y ago
> The thing that bothers me is how they lease out public lands essentially for free to stockmen who proceed to destroy the landscape. They are all just giving the consumer what they want - low cost meat - which requires a ton of land both for grazing and for growing animal feed. Asking them to raise the price on the stockmen is also to ask them to raise prices on consumers. I don't necessarily disagree with that idea, but (pun intended), the consumer has long been the holy cow of American politics.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  A vanishingly small percentage of beef comes from the lands under discussion. [0] The reason is simple: cattle were not evolved for the alpine desert. Consumers wouldn't even notice if cattle were outlawed completely on BLM land. Wildlife biologists certainly would notice! In reality, these policies are political shenanigans. No Republican wants to be the first to stop providing welfare to the Cliven Bundy types that one can find lurking under many cowboy hats. [0] https://beef2live.com/story-ranking-states-beef-cows-0-108181 https://beef2live.com/story-ranking-states-beef-cows-0-10818...
  - danans 6y ago
    > A vanishingly small percentage of beef comes from the lands under discussion. I don't doubt at all the environmental destruction being wrought. However, the land's use is supporting some market for beef though, or else why would the question of $1 leases to stockmen exist? Is it just that it's cheap and marginal (in both cost and quality) land that can be used for marginal production increases, or is it supporting some niche high cost beef sub-market based on its wilder place of production (high alpine beef)? It can't just all be a UBI scheme for alpine beef ranchers.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      It can't just all be a UBI scheme for... Every one of my travels to western states and every conversation I've had with other cattlemen there and elsewhere implies that it is exactly that. Perhaps once upon a time it was something else, and as the situation changed our government didn't keep up. I imagine that numerous bureaucrats at BLM and other agencies have some personal interests in the disastrous way that things are done. Some call this a "principal-agent problem". Likewise, the various stupid wars we in USA fight aren't at all about our security or saving democracy or any of the other myths. Those are "UBI schemes" for armaments manufacturers and their employees in politics and the media.
      - danans 6y ago
        The last sentence of my post should have read: "It can't just all be a UBI scheme for alpine beef ranchers, can it?" As in, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were, but haven't had the conversations you've had first hand.
        jeffbee 6y ago
        Main thing I’ve learned from reading about western water and land policy is if you ever think “it can’t be that!” maybe you’re just not using your imagination.
hirundo 6y ago
I'm surrounded by leased BLM land around here but the parts I've seen are not overgrazed. The lessees are very long term and their livelihood depends on the quality of the forage from year to year. If not overgrazed, cattle have a very positive effect on the landscape. They cultivate the ground with their hooves and excrete fertilizer and seeds. A well grazed lot grows more cow food than an ungrazed one. Even the ranches that focus on elk hunting graze cattle to improve the land for the elk.