4 ms·

Turkey reconverts Istanbul's Hagia Sophia museum into a mosque

49 points by pera 6y ago

AdamJacobMuller 6y ago
I was there a few years ago. Really amazing place, I didn't comprehend its scale until I was there, and even today I struggle to understand that it was built so long ago. I think we would struggle to build something like that today. What's happening here is very subtle and very sad. Other mosques have either limited or no access to non-muslims and it would be tragic if that happened to the Hagia Sophia and I don't think that anyone is going to speak out against this and even if they did, Erdogan has no reason to care. All that said, I do recommend visiting Istanbul. It was a fantastic (if brief) trip with some really breathtaking things. I think we spent like two hours getting lost inside the old bazaar and never once walked the same street twice. The food is also so good. I could live on Turkish coffee and Baklava with some Kunefe for desert.
- Cenk 6y ago
  FWIW I read on Twitter today (can’t find the original tweet for it anymore, sorry) that they would be allowing entry to all visitors outside of prayer times, and that there would be no cost of entry. They also said that the Christian frescos would not be covered up, but dimmed with some kind of lighting apparatus during prayer times and otherwise be visible. This gives me hope that Hagia Sophia will remain accessible to visitors – would be a real shame otherwise, agreed.
  - AdamJacobMuller 6y ago
    > allowing entry to all visitors outside of prayer times That's already blocking off a decent % of the day day, meaning the effective visitor capacity is similarly reduced. Not to mention that having to force everyone out at scheduled times. When I was there we visited several mosques (also amazing places) and our guide scheduled our visits around prayer times and it made the logistics much more complex for those visits. I also hate invoking the slippery slope arguments, but, if they were going to restrict access entirely (as with some mosques like Al-Aqsa and Dome of the Rock in Israel where I was last year) they would start by simply restricting things a bit. It's hard to see. All that said, Turkey is free to do what they want and the Turkish people are going to support Erdogan. I'm just sad that in the future other people may never get to see this incredible site.
    - mengibar10 6y ago
      There are 5 prayers, before dawn, just after noon, couple of hours after noon, just after sun sets, and couple of hours after sunset. These varies by time of year and times get closer during winter times and far apart during summer time. Each prayer takes about 20-40 minutes most, except the Friday prayer which is probably the most crowded time and is about one and half hours. It replaces noon prayer on Fridays. The Blue Mosque just across Hagia Sofia Mosque also allow visitors even during the prayers, except probably during the Friday prayer since it is really crowded. I never had the change to attend Friday prayer there so I am not sure, but I did at other times. Tourist are allowed to visit during prayers and even has the opportunity watching the prayer. I think it will be very similar if not exactly the same manner. No worries about the visitors of any religion or of no religion. You can experience these majestic structures. I recommend Suleymaniye Mosque, which is much larger than then Blue Mosque but not as big as Hagia Sofia. The mosque at Edirne is from the same architect (Sinan [1]) and bigger than Hagia Sofia. Current Hagia Sofia is actually the 2rd rebuilt of the original structure. Original was like the churches in Europe and more rectangular than this one, and did not have a dome. The last structure had dome initially but collapse couple of times and was rebuilt. The reason that it collapsed each time is due to the rectangular shape of the base and did not have enough support of half and quarter domes around it. Sinan the architect is actually the one succeeded to keep the dome from collapsing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan
  - mafm 6y ago
    I hope Turkey does what you're suggesting with lighting. There's also an ayasofya in trebizond that was converted back to a mosque in 2013. That building is still open for visitors but unfortunately the main dome and its mosaics are now obscured by barriers put up during the conversion. It would be a trajedy if the same thing happens in Istanbul. Hopefully it's enough of a tourist attraction that it doesn't happen. Ayasofya is an incredibly impressive and beautiful building. There's nothing else like it in the world (even though it was a major influence on subsequent buildings for a thousand years.) Far more beautiful than European churches.
Cenk 6y ago
My favourite quote about the Hagia Sophia, from Procopius’ De Aedificiis (557 AD): ”For it soars to a height to match the sky, and as if surging up from among the other buildings it stands on high and looks down upon the remainder of the city, adorning it, because it is a part of it, but glorying in its own beauty.”
teleforce 6y ago
Haghia Sophia (built AD537) without doubt is the most majestic building for centuries probably is just surpassed by Taj Mahal. The latter however is just essentially a monument but Haghia is fully functional architecture suitable for congregations. Both of the buildings sourced its building materials from all over the world due to Roman Byzantine and India are both the richest world's empire at their apex times. Fun facts, most of the mosques all over the world copied the Christian's origin Haghia Sophia's dome based architecture and the dome becomes a generic symbol for mosque in apps, etc. On the other hand, churches all over the world are mainly based on the Gothic architecture. The Gothic architecture is most probably originated from Muslim Spanish empire although it's claimed to have Roman and French influences [1]. This can be seen from the infamous architecture of Great Mosque of Cordoba or Mesquita (built AD784) the world's largest mosque during its time, now a church. The other popular mosque inspired by Mesquita mosque is Spanish Mosque (built AD1906) in Hyderabad, India. Arguably, the more visually appealing and beautiful architecture based on Haghia Sophia is what made it being adopted by most of the mosques around the world and the demise of Muslim Spanish in the 15th century that really sealed the fate of the Gothic based architecture for adoption in modern mosques. [1]https://muslimheritage.com/muslim-origin-of-gothic-architecture/ https://muslimheritage.com/muslim-origin-of-gothic-architect...
- mengibar10 6y ago
  > is just surpassed by Taj Mahal Not really, The Selimiye Mosque [2] surpassed Hagia Sofia, not only the diameter of the dome also its robustness of its structure. Taj Mahal is a product of inspiration taken from Mimar Sinan and they studied Sinan's work. "Mimar Sinan's architectural concepts were incorporated into the design of the famous Taj Mahal" [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selimiye_Mosque,_Edirne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selimiye_Mosque,_Edirne
8bitsrule 6y ago
PBS documentary 'Hagia Sofia' 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2WNUWDoAM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2WNUWDoAM4
AdamJacobMuller 6y ago
My photos of the Hagia Sophia: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0M5qXGF114fUO https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0M5qXGF114fUO
- mraza007 6y ago
  They look amazing. I’m planning on visiting Turkey and some day i wish i could move there since i love the Turkish cuisine
  - AdamJacobMuller 6y ago
    Visit before you can't anymore.
bfieidhbrjr 6y ago
What could go wrong having a theocracy in NATO?
aliswe 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_inscriptions_in_Hagia_Sophia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_inscriptions_in_Hagia_... The "Viking grafitti" is really interesting!

49 points by pera 6y ago

I was there a few years ago. Really amazing place, I didn't comprehend its scale until I was there, and even today I struggle to understand that it was built so long ago. I think we would struggle to build something like that today. What's happening here is very subtle and very sad. Other mosques have either limited or no access to non-muslims and it would be tragic if that happened to the Hagia Sophia and I don't think that anyone is going to speak out against this and even if they did, Erdogan has no reason to care. All that said, I do recommend visiting Istanbul. It was a fantastic (if brief) trip with some really breathtaking things. I think we spent like two hours getting lost inside the old bazaar and never once walked the same street twice. The food is also so good. I could live on Turkish coffee and Baklava with some Kunefe for desert.

Cenk 6y ago
FWIW I read on Twitter today (can’t find the original tweet for it anymore, sorry) that they would be allowing entry to all visitors outside of prayer times, and that there would be no cost of entry. They also said that the Christian frescos would not be covered up, but dimmed with some kind of lighting apparatus during prayer times and otherwise be visible. This gives me hope that Hagia Sophia will remain accessible to visitors – would be a real shame otherwise, agreed.
- AdamJacobMuller 6y ago
  > allowing entry to all visitors outside of prayer times That's already blocking off a decent % of the day day, meaning the effective visitor capacity is similarly reduced. Not to mention that having to force everyone out at scheduled times. When I was there we visited several mosques (also amazing places) and our guide scheduled our visits around prayer times and it made the logistics much more complex for those visits. I also hate invoking the slippery slope arguments, but, if they were going to restrict access entirely (as with some mosques like Al-Aqsa and Dome of the Rock in Israel where I was last year) they would start by simply restricting things a bit. It's hard to see. All that said, Turkey is free to do what they want and the Turkish people are going to support Erdogan. I'm just sad that in the future other people may never get to see this incredible site.
  - mengibar10 6y ago
    There are 5 prayers, before dawn, just after noon, couple of hours after noon, just after sun sets, and couple of hours after sunset. These varies by time of year and times get closer during winter times and far apart during summer time. Each prayer takes about 20-40 minutes most, except the Friday prayer which is probably the most crowded time and is about one and half hours. It replaces noon prayer on Fridays. The Blue Mosque just across Hagia Sofia Mosque also allow visitors even during the prayers, except probably during the Friday prayer since it is really crowded. I never had the change to attend Friday prayer there so I am not sure, but I did at other times. Tourist are allowed to visit during prayers and even has the opportunity watching the prayer. I think it will be very similar if not exactly the same manner. No worries about the visitors of any religion or of no religion. You can experience these majestic structures. I recommend Suleymaniye Mosque, which is much larger than then Blue Mosque but not as big as Hagia Sofia. The mosque at Edirne is from the same architect (Sinan [1]) and bigger than Hagia Sofia. Current Hagia Sofia is actually the 2rd rebuilt of the original structure. Original was like the churches in Europe and more rectangular than this one, and did not have a dome. The last structure had dome initially but collapse couple of times and was rebuilt. The reason that it collapsed each time is due to the rectangular shape of the base and did not have enough support of half and quarter domes around it. Sinan the architect is actually the one succeeded to keep the dome from collapsing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan
- mafm 6y ago
  I hope Turkey does what you're suggesting with lighting. There's also an ayasofya in trebizond that was converted back to a mosque in 2013. That building is still open for visitors but unfortunately the main dome and its mosaics are now obscured by barriers put up during the conversion. It would be a trajedy if the same thing happens in Istanbul. Hopefully it's enough of a tourist attraction that it doesn't happen. Ayasofya is an incredibly impressive and beautiful building. There's nothing else like it in the world (even though it was a major influence on subsequent buildings for a thousand years.) Far more beautiful than European churches.

Cenk 6y ago

My favourite quote about the Hagia Sophia, from Procopius’ De Aedificiis (557 AD): ”For it soars to a height to match the sky, and as if surging up from among the other buildings it stands on high and looks down upon the remainder of the city, adorning it, because it is a part of it, but glorying in its own beauty.”

teleforce 6y ago

Haghia Sophia (built AD537) without doubt is the most majestic building for centuries probably is just surpassed by Taj Mahal. The latter however is just essentially a monument but Haghia is fully functional architecture suitable for congregations. Both of the buildings sourced its building materials from all over the world due to Roman Byzantine and India are both the richest world's empire at their apex times. Fun facts, most of the mosques all over the world copied the Christian's origin Haghia Sophia's dome based architecture and the dome becomes a generic symbol for mosque in apps, etc. On the other hand, churches all over the world are mainly based on the Gothic architecture. The Gothic architecture is most probably originated from Muslim Spanish empire although it's claimed to have Roman and French influences [1]. This can be seen from the infamous architecture of Great Mosque of Cordoba or Mesquita (built AD784) the world's largest mosque during its time, now a church. The other popular mosque inspired by Mesquita mosque is Spanish Mosque (built AD1906) in Hyderabad, India. Arguably, the more visually appealing and beautiful architecture based on Haghia Sophia is what made it being adopted by most of the mosques around the world and the demise of Muslim Spanish in the 15th century that really sealed the fate of the Gothic based architecture for adoption in modern mosques. [1]https://muslimheritage.com/muslim-origin-of-gothic-architecture/ https://muslimheritage.com/muslim-origin-of-gothic-architect...

mengibar10 6y ago
> is just surpassed by Taj Mahal Not really, The Selimiye Mosque [2] surpassed Hagia Sofia, not only the diameter of the dome also its robustness of its structure. Taj Mahal is a product of inspiration taken from Mimar Sinan and they studied Sinan's work. "Mimar Sinan's architectural concepts were incorporated into the design of the famous Taj Mahal" [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selimiye_Mosque,_Edirne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selimiye_Mosque,_Edirne

8bitsrule 6y ago

PBS documentary 'Hagia Sofia' 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2WNUWDoAM4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2WNUWDoAM4

AdamJacobMuller 6y ago

My photos of the Hagia Sophia: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0M5qXGF114fUO https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0M5qXGF114fUO

mraza007 6y ago
They look amazing. I’m planning on visiting Turkey and some day i wish i could move there since i love the Turkish cuisine
- AdamJacobMuller 6y ago
  Visit before you can't anymore.

bfieidhbrjr 6y ago

What could go wrong having a theocracy in NATO?

aliswe 6y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_inscriptions_in_Hagia_Sophia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_inscriptions_in_Hagia_... The "Viking grafitti" is really interesting!