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Yes, the ribbon is a futile exercise. I'm pretty sure 90% of the people don't know how to use it, and the ones who know don't remember where things are. In this

Yes, the ribbon is a futile exercise. I'm pretty sure 90% of the people don't know how to use it, and the ones who know don't remember where things are. In this sense, menus are much more successful interface, at least you know where things might be. And in fact, when I use MS Word I first try to find things in the menu, and only reach for the ribbon for items I already know from previous experience.

ModernMech 6y ago
I don't understand this criticism. The layout seems logical to me. If you want to insert something, go to the "Insert" tab. If you want page design options, go to the "Design" tab. What's so inscrutable?
- coliveira 6y ago
  There are plenty of problems. In the Mac, for example, menus are discoverable because you can go to "help->seach" and type what you're looking for. This cannot be easily done with the ribbon. Moreover, once you have a clue that you're looking for an "insert" option, you still need to search around in the ribbon, since there is no logic for where the option might be hiding. A menu you can read from top to bottom, but a ribbon you need to scan from left to right and top to bottom, making it much harder to use.
  - ModernMech 6y ago
    "In the Mac, for example, menus are discoverable because you can go to "help->seach" and type what you're looking for. This cannot be easily done with the ribbon." I can't speak to the Mac version, but on Windows there is a search box at the top that returns a result for whatever you want. "A menu you can read from top to bottom, but a ribbon you need to scan from left to right and top to bottom, making it much harder to use." No, menus are 2D as well. There's 1 vertical dimension, and then there's the hidden second dimension where you have to hover over each item to see what's inside. For example, in Google Docs under the Insert menu there is an item for "Headers and Footers", which opens a menu with two items: "headers" and "footers". The ribbon flattens this and just lays both out in the tab. "making it much harder to use." "Much" harder? Really? Honestly, I've used both interfaces extensively over the years and I've gotten plenty of work done in both. I just don't see what the big deal is about this little war that's been going on for 13 years, and claims of one being "much" harder than the other seem greatly exaggerated. Like... oh, you had to scan in two dimensions to find functions. Okay, how much does that really impact your productivity? How much of your time is really spent scanning a menu? Once you found it.... you can make a shortcut for it. I've got a shortcut for all the common tasks I use, and it's really no different than a custom toolbar from the pre-ribbon era.
    - coliveira 6y ago
      No way, searching items in a ribbon is much harder than on a simple menu, even if you have subitems. It is the difference between reading text (fast) and trying to decipher pictures, specially when they are not well organized. Most people have trouble with the ribbon, I am not the only one who noticed this.
      - ModernMech 6y ago
        Again, “much” harder is quite the exaggeration. I mean, maybe for you, sure, but I’ve had plenty of time in the past 13 years to figure out where things are. If I’m ever genuinely searching for something I don’t scan the ribbon option by option, I use the search bar. As far as “deciphering” pictures, there’s an association that builds over time. When I see the picture I make the association automatically. There’s research that shows people recognize pictures faster than they read words, since words all look visually similar and pictures have more cues to differentiate between them.
        coliveira 6y ago
        You are talking about the experience of someone who has learned the ribbon for a long time. Of course, if you always use the ribbon, it will be more familiar to you. Just like if you were taught Mandarin as a child it will be easier than speaking English. It has nothing to do with how easy it is to use these two different alternatives.
        ModernMech 6y ago
        I didn’t have a hard time learning the ribbon. Going back to my original post, I just don’t see how it’s so inscrutable as others in these comments claim. Could it be that all these claims of the ribbon being a “much” harder are overblown? It honestly doesn’t seem so much different than a menu system to me, and again there are pros and cons for both. I think if you’re going to continue making this claim you should attempt to quantify it.

ModernMech 6y ago

I don't understand this criticism. The layout seems logical to me. If you want to insert something, go to the "Insert" tab. If you want page design options, go to the "Design" tab. What's so inscrutable?

coliveira 6y ago
There are plenty of problems. In the Mac, for example, menus are discoverable because you can go to "help->seach" and type what you're looking for. This cannot be easily done with the ribbon. Moreover, once you have a clue that you're looking for an "insert" option, you still need to search around in the ribbon, since there is no logic for where the option might be hiding. A menu you can read from top to bottom, but a ribbon you need to scan from left to right and top to bottom, making it much harder to use.
- ModernMech 6y ago
  "In the Mac, for example, menus are discoverable because you can go to "help->seach" and type what you're looking for. This cannot be easily done with the ribbon." I can't speak to the Mac version, but on Windows there is a search box at the top that returns a result for whatever you want. "A menu you can read from top to bottom, but a ribbon you need to scan from left to right and top to bottom, making it much harder to use." No, menus are 2D as well. There's 1 vertical dimension, and then there's the hidden second dimension where you have to hover over each item to see what's inside. For example, in Google Docs under the Insert menu there is an item for "Headers and Footers", which opens a menu with two items: "headers" and "footers". The ribbon flattens this and just lays both out in the tab. "making it much harder to use." "Much" harder? Really? Honestly, I've used both interfaces extensively over the years and I've gotten plenty of work done in both. I just don't see what the big deal is about this little war that's been going on for 13 years, and claims of one being "much" harder than the other seem greatly exaggerated. Like... oh, you had to scan in two dimensions to find functions. Okay, how much does that really impact your productivity? How much of your time is really spent scanning a menu? Once you found it.... you can make a shortcut for it. I've got a shortcut for all the common tasks I use, and it's really no different than a custom toolbar from the pre-ribbon era.
  - coliveira 6y ago
    No way, searching items in a ribbon is much harder than on a simple menu, even if you have subitems. It is the difference between reading text (fast) and trying to decipher pictures, specially when they are not well organized. Most people have trouble with the ribbon, I am not the only one who noticed this.
    - ModernMech 6y ago
      Again, “much” harder is quite the exaggeration. I mean, maybe for you, sure, but I’ve had plenty of time in the past 13 years to figure out where things are. If I’m ever genuinely searching for something I don’t scan the ribbon option by option, I use the search bar. As far as “deciphering” pictures, there’s an association that builds over time. When I see the picture I make the association automatically. There’s research that shows people recognize pictures faster than they read words, since words all look visually similar and pictures have more cues to differentiate between them.
      - coliveira 6y ago
        You are talking about the experience of someone who has learned the ribbon for a long time. Of course, if you always use the ribbon, it will be more familiar to you. Just like if you were taught Mandarin as a child it will be easier than speaking English. It has nothing to do with how easy it is to use these two different alternatives.
        ModernMech 6y ago
        I didn’t have a hard time learning the ribbon. Going back to my original post, I just don’t see how it’s so inscrutable as others in these comments claim. Could it be that all these claims of the ribbon being a “much” harder are overblown? It honestly doesn’t seem so much different than a menu system to me, and again there are pros and cons for both. I think if you’re going to continue making this claim you should attempt to quantify it.