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> Feel free to use a VPN, though Tor is more than enough for your needs. This is a misconception. Using a VPN with TOR makes you less anonymous, not more. htt

> Feel free to use a VPN, though Tor is more than enough for your needs. This is a misconception. Using a VPN with TOR makes you less anonymous, not more. https://write.privacytools.io/my-thoughts-on-security/slicing-onions-part-2-onion-recipes-vpn-not-required https://write.privacytools.io/my-thoughts-on-security/slicin...

adrusi 6y ago
ISP -> VPN -> Tor can be a good idea depending on your threat model, but if you're not completely sure that you need to do so, it's best to avoid it. ISP -> Tor -> VPN is generally extremely stupid, as tor is doing absolutely nothing for you if your VPN subscription is tied to your true identity. If, on the other hand, your VPN subscription is completely isolated from your true identity, then this can be a good way to bypass restrictions imposed by sites that block Tor. I'm not aware of tor-friendly VPN services, but I am aware of at least one tor-friendly VPS provider, which should be just as good given that your VPS subscription would not be tied to your true identity. Would not recommend using this method more than absolutely necessary, because although you can keep your true identity secret if you're very careful, it does become substantially easier to track you and ultimately unveil you by studying correlations (for one example, if your VPN is only active on the network while your home internet is connected to a Tor relay, over time you could be singled out as the most like source of that traffic).
- ronsor 6y ago
  I have not done much research, but I believe Mullvad allows you to pay for a VPN anonymously using cash.
- notRobot 6y ago
  > If ... your VPN subscription is completely isolated from your true identity One way to do this is to get a Mullvad subscription, and to pay for it with bitcoin. They don't even require an email address.
  - celestialcheese 6y ago
    OR, mail cash https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2019/1/29/sending-cash-use-our-new-address/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2019/1/29/sending-cash-use-our-n...
- surround 6y ago
  Why though? How is there any benefit to using a VPN with TOR? Especially when it’s obvious that there’s a lot of risk involved.
  - asdfman123 6y ago
    Because it shields the fact you're going through Tor. Tor network traffic alone is a red flag that you're doing something shady, even if it isn't sufficient proof. A comical example is when a Stanford student used Tor to call in a bomb threat to get out of an exam. Turns out he was one of two people on the entire campus network using Tor. The police talked to him and he admitted to it. (Side note: if you're going to do crimes don't admit to them when asked.)
    - telotortium 6y ago
      MIT
    - surround 6y ago
      > The most common rationale behind this setup is to hide Tor usage from an ISP or circumvent censorship of the Tor network. This is unnecessary as you can hide Tor usage and circumvent censorship by using bridges. You can either use the bridges that are included in Tor Browser for this, or request other bridges from in any of the ways described here. A bonus of bridges is that they don’t leave a money trail, which VPNs often do. [...] Even if you were to end up on a watch list, it would be a uselessly large list as Tor has more then 2 million daily users. It strikes me as very naive to imagine that someone powerful enough to trace you over the Tor network will be stopped by a $5 a month VPN service.
- justnotworthit 6y ago
  A...few... additional notes on combining Tor with vpns/proxy/ssh/tunnels (some whonix specific, mostly not) https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Tunnels/Introduction https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Tunnels/Introduction TLDR tho is that you're right. Don't do it unless you have to, and you don't have to.

adrusi 6y ago

ISP -> VPN -> Tor can be a good idea depending on your threat model, but if you're not completely sure that you need to do so, it's best to avoid it. ISP -> Tor -> VPN is generally extremely stupid, as tor is doing absolutely nothing for you if your VPN subscription is tied to your true identity. If, on the other hand, your VPN subscription is completely isolated from your true identity, then this can be a good way to bypass restrictions imposed by sites that block Tor. I'm not aware of tor-friendly VPN services, but I am aware of at least one tor-friendly VPS provider, which should be just as good given that your VPS subscription would not be tied to your true identity. Would not recommend using this method more than absolutely necessary, because although you can keep your true identity secret if you're very careful, it does become substantially easier to track you and ultimately unveil you by studying correlations (for one example, if your VPN is only active on the network while your home internet is connected to a Tor relay, over time you could be singled out as the most like source of that traffic).

ronsor 6y ago
I have not done much research, but I believe Mullvad allows you to pay for a VPN anonymously using cash.
notRobot 6y ago
> If ... your VPN subscription is completely isolated from your true identity One way to do this is to get a Mullvad subscription, and to pay for it with bitcoin. They don't even require an email address.
- celestialcheese 6y ago
  OR, mail cash https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2019/1/29/sending-cash-use-our-new-address/ https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2019/1/29/sending-cash-use-our-n...
surround 6y ago
Why though? How is there any benefit to using a VPN with TOR? Especially when it’s obvious that there’s a lot of risk involved.
- asdfman123 6y ago
  Because it shields the fact you're going through Tor. Tor network traffic alone is a red flag that you're doing something shady, even if it isn't sufficient proof. A comical example is when a Stanford student used Tor to call in a bomb threat to get out of an exam. Turns out he was one of two people on the entire campus network using Tor. The police talked to him and he admitted to it. (Side note: if you're going to do crimes don't admit to them when asked.)
  - telotortium 6y ago
    MIT
  - surround 6y ago
    > The most common rationale behind this setup is to hide Tor usage from an ISP or circumvent censorship of the Tor network. This is unnecessary as you can hide Tor usage and circumvent censorship by using bridges. You can either use the bridges that are included in Tor Browser for this, or request other bridges from in any of the ways described here. A bonus of bridges is that they don’t leave a money trail, which VPNs often do. [...] Even if you were to end up on a watch list, it would be a uselessly large list as Tor has more then 2 million daily users. It strikes me as very naive to imagine that someone powerful enough to trace you over the Tor network will be stopped by a $5 a month VPN service.
justnotworthit 6y ago
A...few... additional notes on combining Tor with vpns/proxy/ssh/tunnels (some whonix specific, mostly not) https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Tunnels/Introduction https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Tunnels/Introduction TLDR tho is that you're right. Don't do it unless you have to, and you don't have to.