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I think this is a compelling hypothetical, but I can't think of a single person who only said they were in support of strong border protection and limited immig

I think this is a compelling hypothetical, but I can't think of a single person who only said they were in support of strong border protection and limited immigration and was subject to anything like what you're saying. Could you provide an example of what you mean?

giancarlostoro 6y ago
Except its not I have seen people called Neonazis just for being Republican or siding with Trump whether or not they are "Trump supporters" on issues. Even saying the name "Trump supporter" is evidence alone that there is an element of cancel culture. A woman was rejected from a college recently for posting a MAGA video on Tik Tok. Some developer is being called a Neonazi for protesting against an open source org that banned someone from a conference for wearing a MAGA hat. I say this too often on HN: today they silence the voice of those you disagree with, tomorrow its your voice. Not to mention: master-slave throughout tech, master branch in git, are all examples of absurd cancel culture. Meanwhile minorities shake their head.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  Has any individual faced consequences for refusing to rename a branch? Are you saying that cancelling a word is a thing, and a dangerous one? At this point people are diluting the phrase "cancel culture" to mean "thing I don't like that is vaguely related to politics or political correctness". That's not a useful concept. It's just a thing to be angry about.
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    That's not what cancel culture is, but it's usually the precursor to it. People who are upset over things that are not yet causing negative side-effects know that they eventually will because already what's happened is a bit much in many cases. You shouldn't be fired for things you do and say outside of work, period.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      > You shouldn't be fired for things you do and say outside of work, period. Why not? And are you claiming that this is simply a moral standpoint, or do you want to legally prevent employers from firing employees for off-work behavior?
      - giancarlostoro 6y ago
        There's plenty of companies that don't fire employees for the things they do outside of work, it's been like this for ages, why should this become a normal standard all of a sudden? Just to appease the ever changing feelings of others? Unless I actually breach my company contract in some fashion I don't understand why what I do outside of work has anything to do with my company, in fact, unless I'm some executive, it shouldn't ever matter.
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        That's not what I asked. You stated companies shouldn't do this. Just because some entities have chosen to act in a certain way doesn't mean that it is morally correct for all entities to act in that way. Certain companies have been founded based on religious beliefs forever, that doesn't mean that it is morally correct for every company to have religious foundations. If you want to run your company that way, you're absolutely welcome to, but upon what reasoning do you claim it is wrong for me to act differently than you choose to?
        giancarlostoro 6y ago
        If what someone does, does not actually affect a company negatively aside from a few emails or calls, I don't see why it should fire somebody. People will find someone that disagrees with them in virtually every single company.
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        Again, that's fine for you to act that way. But what you stated was the rule: > You shouldn't be fired for things you do and say outside of work, period. Which would presumably apply to all companies. Under what ethical basis is this a good rule? What if I want to fire someone for what they did outside of work? Why shouldn't I be allowed to do that? Why should your belief about how you would run your company affect how I run mine?
- ativzzz 6y ago
  It's not any different from republicans calling liberals libtards, antifa and communists whenever someone talks about medicare for all. Both sides do it to each other, right wingers just complain about it more because the majority of people who control social media platforms tend to be left leaning. In general, people only want free speech for things they want to say, but not for things they disagree with.
  - efa 6y ago
    Yes, but has an open Antifa supporter ever been denied college entrance or attending a conference because of that support? Or lost their job?
    - ativzzz 6y ago
      Not quite Antifa but here's an example of a Harvard grad losing her consulting job due to threatening violence against people who say "all lives matter" [1] https://nypost.com/2020/07/01/harvard-grad-claira-janover-lost-deloitte-job-over-tiktok-stab-threat/ https://nypost.com/2020/07/01/harvard-grad-claira-janover-lo...
      - efa 6y ago
        Yes, but you have to admit all the vast majority of firings lately are for people not having the proper left wing viewpoint.
    - efa 6y ago
      Threatening violence, yes that will get you in trouble (hopefully). A little different than just minding your business wearing a MAGA hat.
      - ativzzz 6y ago
        You mean like Trump saying he could shoot someone and not lose voters in 2016? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA
guygurari 6y ago
Here are examples of people who were cancelled without even saying anything [1]. One was due to a misunderstanding. Another was due to something a family member said. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firing-innocent/613615/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firin...
- femiagbabiaka 6y ago
  I hadn't heard these stories, thank you! Sounds like we need bipartisan legislation for protecting political speech in the workplace, with some sensible limits.
hombre_fatal 6y ago
JK Rowling is a good example of middlebrow views getting you and anyone who can be associated with you in trouble. She has widely-held opinions like trans-women should be respected, but they are different from women. But if you log on to Twitter, she's vilified so much as a "transphobe" that people have been attacked for merely signing the same open-letter that she signed. https://twitter.com/emilyvdw/status/1280580388495097856 https://twitter.com/emilyvdw/status/1280580388495097856
- mobilejdral 6y ago
  > She has widely-held opinions like trans-women should be respected Um no. She has admitted to being part of the known trans hate group GenderCritical. Edit: not sure why I am getting downvoted. She uses talking points from the GenderCritial group when she writes and even mentions them by name and that group was banned by reddit for being a hate group.
  - hombre_fatal 6y ago
    This is the sort of vague "argument"-crafting I expect on Twitter but not on HN where you have unlimited words to make a point and add understanding to the world. I googled "jk rowling gender critical" and all I see is a great google query if you want to find articles about how supposedly transphobic she is (without explaining what was specifically transphobic about what she said). If you're going to say someone has admitted to being part of a hate group, why not help us out and provide us some links?
    - mobilejdral 6y ago
      The recent opinion essay she wrote: https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-... A rebuttal of that essay with citations: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1270787941275762689.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1270787941275762689.html And an article talking about the banning of the hate subreddit r/gendercritical: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/06/29/reddit-bann-transphobia-gender-critical-page-hate-speech-donald-trump-steve-huffman/ https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/06/29/reddit-bann-transphobi...
anonms-coward 6y ago
Well here is a sample for you: https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/07/a-new-low-in-higher-education.php https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/07/a-new-low-in-...
senderista 6y ago
Those opinions are currently stigmatized as “racist dogwhistles” and “white supremacy”. I’m generally pro-immigration myself, but I believe it’s possible to advocate for limited immigration without being a racist.
commandlinefan 6y ago
> Could you provide an example of what you mean? The CEO of Goya foods called Donald Trump a "great leader" and there's an active boycott of the brand as a result.
- anonms-coward 6y ago
  To be fair, that sounds a lot more reasonable. A CEO represents their company and their actions leading to people boycotting their company is just people voting with their wallet. People have boycotted small businesses due to the opinion of the business owner's children, even after persistent apologies by the business owner. In this case I don't even think there is anything significantly wrong. This isn't much different than a company sanctioned advertisement gone wrong.
  - syshum 6y ago
    While people are free to Boycott for any reason they want A person that has respect for the concept of Free Speech WOULD NOT boycott a business simply because the CEO of that business supports the current president of the US. That is simply NOT a reasonable reaction to learning of said support. So no it does not "sound a lot more reasonable", it sounds like a perfect example of society losing respect for free expression

giancarlostoro 6y ago

Except its not I have seen people called Neonazis just for being Republican or siding with Trump whether or not they are "Trump supporters" on issues. Even saying the name "Trump supporter" is evidence alone that there is an element of cancel culture. A woman was rejected from a college recently for posting a MAGA video on Tik Tok. Some developer is being called a Neonazi for protesting against an open source org that banned someone from a conference for wearing a MAGA hat. I say this too often on HN: today they silence the voice of those you disagree with, tomorrow its your voice. Not to mention: master-slave throughout tech, master branch in git, are all examples of absurd cancel culture. Meanwhile minorities shake their head.

joshuamorton 6y ago
Has any individual faced consequences for refusing to rename a branch? Are you saying that cancelling a word is a thing, and a dangerous one? At this point people are diluting the phrase "cancel culture" to mean "thing I don't like that is vaguely related to politics or political correctness". That's not a useful concept. It's just a thing to be angry about.
- giancarlostoro 6y ago
  That's not what cancel culture is, but it's usually the precursor to it. People who are upset over things that are not yet causing negative side-effects know that they eventually will because already what's happened is a bit much in many cases. You shouldn't be fired for things you do and say outside of work, period.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    > You shouldn't be fired for things you do and say outside of work, period. Why not? And are you claiming that this is simply a moral standpoint, or do you want to legally prevent employers from firing employees for off-work behavior?
    - giancarlostoro 6y ago
      There's plenty of companies that don't fire employees for the things they do outside of work, it's been like this for ages, why should this become a normal standard all of a sudden? Just to appease the ever changing feelings of others? Unless I actually breach my company contract in some fashion I don't understand why what I do outside of work has anything to do with my company, in fact, unless I'm some executive, it shouldn't ever matter.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        That's not what I asked. You stated companies shouldn't do this. Just because some entities have chosen to act in a certain way doesn't mean that it is morally correct for all entities to act in that way. Certain companies have been founded based on religious beliefs forever, that doesn't mean that it is morally correct for every company to have religious foundations. If you want to run your company that way, you're absolutely welcome to, but upon what reasoning do you claim it is wrong for me to act differently than you choose to?
        giancarlostoro 6y ago
        If what someone does, does not actually affect a company negatively aside from a few emails or calls, I don't see why it should fire somebody. People will find someone that disagrees with them in virtually every single company.
        joshuamorton 6y ago
        Again, that's fine for you to act that way. But what you stated was the rule: > You shouldn't be fired for things you do and say outside of work, period. Which would presumably apply to all companies. Under what ethical basis is this a good rule? What if I want to fire someone for what they did outside of work? Why shouldn't I be allowed to do that? Why should your belief about how you would run your company affect how I run mine?
ativzzz 6y ago
It's not any different from republicans calling liberals libtards, antifa and communists whenever someone talks about medicare for all. Both sides do it to each other, right wingers just complain about it more because the majority of people who control social media platforms tend to be left leaning. In general, people only want free speech for things they want to say, but not for things they disagree with.
- efa 6y ago
  Yes, but has an open Antifa supporter ever been denied college entrance or attending a conference because of that support? Or lost their job?
  - ativzzz 6y ago
    Not quite Antifa but here's an example of a Harvard grad losing her consulting job due to threatening violence against people who say "all lives matter" [1] https://nypost.com/2020/07/01/harvard-grad-claira-janover-lost-deloitte-job-over-tiktok-stab-threat/ https://nypost.com/2020/07/01/harvard-grad-claira-janover-lo...
    - efa 6y ago
      Yes, but you have to admit all the vast majority of firings lately are for people not having the proper left wing viewpoint.
  - efa 6y ago
    Threatening violence, yes that will get you in trouble (hopefully). A little different than just minding your business wearing a MAGA hat.
    - ativzzz 6y ago
      You mean like Trump saying he could shoot someone and not lose voters in 2016? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA

guygurari 6y ago

Here are examples of people who were cancelled without even saying anything [1]. One was due to a misunderstanding. Another was due to something a family member said. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firing-innocent/613615/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firin...

femiagbabiaka 6y ago
I hadn't heard these stories, thank you! Sounds like we need bipartisan legislation for protecting political speech in the workplace, with some sensible limits.

hombre_fatal 6y ago

JK Rowling is a good example of middlebrow views getting you and anyone who can be associated with you in trouble. She has widely-held opinions like trans-women should be respected, but they are different from women. But if you log on to Twitter, she's vilified so much as a "transphobe" that people have been attacked for merely signing the same open-letter that she signed. https://twitter.com/emilyvdw/status/1280580388495097856 https://twitter.com/emilyvdw/status/1280580388495097856

mobilejdral 6y ago
> She has widely-held opinions like trans-women should be respected Um no. She has admitted to being part of the known trans hate group GenderCritical. Edit: not sure why I am getting downvoted. She uses talking points from the GenderCritial group when she writes and even mentions them by name and that group was banned by reddit for being a hate group.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  This is the sort of vague "argument"-crafting I expect on Twitter but not on HN where you have unlimited words to make a point and add understanding to the world. I googled "jk rowling gender critical" and all I see is a great google query if you want to find articles about how supposedly transphobic she is (without explaining what was specifically transphobic about what she said). If you're going to say someone has admitted to being part of a hate group, why not help us out and provide us some links?
  - mobilejdral 6y ago
    The recent opinion essay she wrote: https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-... A rebuttal of that essay with citations: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1270787941275762689.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1270787941275762689.html And an article talking about the banning of the hate subreddit r/gendercritical: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/06/29/reddit-bann-transphobia-gender-critical-page-hate-speech-donald-trump-steve-huffman/ https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/06/29/reddit-bann-transphobi...

anonms-coward 6y ago

Well here is a sample for you: https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/07/a-new-low-in-higher-education.php https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/07/a-new-low-in-...

senderista 6y ago

Those opinions are currently stigmatized as “racist dogwhistles” and “white supremacy”. I’m generally pro-immigration myself, but I believe it’s possible to advocate for limited immigration without being a racist.

commandlinefan 6y ago

> Could you provide an example of what you mean? The CEO of Goya foods called Donald Trump a "great leader" and there's an active boycott of the brand as a result.

anonms-coward 6y ago
To be fair, that sounds a lot more reasonable. A CEO represents their company and their actions leading to people boycotting their company is just people voting with their wallet. People have boycotted small businesses due to the opinion of the business owner's children, even after persistent apologies by the business owner. In this case I don't even think there is anything significantly wrong. This isn't much different than a company sanctioned advertisement gone wrong.
- syshum 6y ago
  While people are free to Boycott for any reason they want A person that has respect for the concept of Free Speech WOULD NOT boycott a business simply because the CEO of that business supports the current president of the US. That is simply NOT a reasonable reaction to learning of said support. So no it does not "sound a lot more reasonable", it sounds like a perfect example of society losing respect for free expression