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None should be? We've experimented with privatization in the UK. No field has been a success, every one has been a failure afaik. Trains - Worse, terrible in f

None should be? We've experimented with privatization in the UK. No field has been a success, every one has been a failure afaik. Trains - Worse, terrible in fact Housing - Went from 300k houses p/y being built by councils, to 30k by their privatized replacement. Now severe housing shortage 30 years later Medicine - Terrible, caused deaths in covid crisis, privately managed PPE stocks were a disaster Water - Terrible, all profits have been used to pay shareholders, taken on huge debt. little investment in infrastructure, ticking time bomb before bailout needed Energy - Crazy price increases Prices go up, services worsen, and debts pile up. Tell me again why you think they should be privatized? All that happens is a bunch of privileged shareholders get to mooch off the public purse.

michaelt 6y ago
> Energy - Crazy price increases I certainly agree that a lot of privatisations were messed up, but but in the late 1970s the UK's nationalised industry literally only managed to produce enough electricity to keep the lights on three days a week. It was pretty easy for Thatcher and Blair to sell the concept of privatisation when that was in widespread living memory.
- mattmanser 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week Does that look like a failing of the public sector or a oil crisis that targeted the UK specifically?
  - michaelt 6y ago
    Given that the miners who were on strike all worked for the National Coal Board, and that coal was converted into electricity by the Central Electricity Generating Board, it seems like a pretty major failing of nationalised industry to me, yes.
    - mattmanser 6y ago
      Perhaps you failed to read the link, an oil crisis because Capitalism is fucking you over is not a strike.
wenc 6y ago
In those examples, would you say they're all examples of privatization without competition, where the incumbent effectively owned the existing infrastructure and the barriers to entry for newcomers were high?
chillacy 6y ago
Can't speak for the UK but Tokyo seemed to do pretty well with privatized subways: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-10-31/why-tokyo-s-privately-owned-rail-systems-work-so-well https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-10-31/why-tokyo... Singapore has a pretty good quasi-public-but-transparent-and-subsidized healthcare system: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/25/15356118/singapore-health-care-system-explained https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/25/15356118/s... I think the jury's still out on if privatization is the primary factor for success or failure or if other complex factors determine the success/failure of these programs (I would guess the later).
snidane 6y ago
Basically you can divide the economy amd businesses into 1. infrastructure and platforms (justice, roads, utilites, networks) - where privatisation results in disaster 99% of times 2. "typical businesses" - privatisation generally good idea 3. things inbetween (schools, healthcare) - neither fully privatized or centralized system works well. Usually a combination of both performs much better. Eg. hybrid healthcare system deals with runaway costs by having a baseline health service provided by government and prevents soviet-style wasting, theft of material by employees, black markets and long lines forming by having a parallel market health system alongside. Both can keep each other in check. One has to wonder why countries always deploy it in one of the pure forms.

michaelt 6y ago

> Energy - Crazy price increases I certainly agree that a lot of privatisations were messed up, but but in the late 1970s the UK's nationalised industry literally only managed to produce enough electricity to keep the lights on three days a week. It was pretty easy for Thatcher and Blair to sell the concept of privatisation when that was in widespread living memory.

mattmanser 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week Does that look like a failing of the public sector or a oil crisis that targeted the UK specifically?
- michaelt 6y ago
  Given that the miners who were on strike all worked for the National Coal Board, and that coal was converted into electricity by the Central Electricity Generating Board, it seems like a pretty major failing of nationalised industry to me, yes.
  - mattmanser 6y ago
    Perhaps you failed to read the link, an oil crisis because Capitalism is fucking you over is not a strike.

wenc 6y ago

In those examples, would you say they're all examples of privatization without competition, where the incumbent effectively owned the existing infrastructure and the barriers to entry for newcomers were high?

chillacy 6y ago

Can't speak for the UK but Tokyo seemed to do pretty well with privatized subways: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-10-31/why-tokyo-s-privately-owned-rail-systems-work-so-well https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-10-31/why-tokyo... Singapore has a pretty good quasi-public-but-transparent-and-subsidized healthcare system: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/25/15356118/singapore-health-care-system-explained https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/25/15356118/s... I think the jury's still out on if privatization is the primary factor for success or failure or if other complex factors determine the success/failure of these programs (I would guess the later).

snidane 6y ago

Basically you can divide the economy amd businesses into 1. infrastructure and platforms (justice, roads, utilites, networks) - where privatisation results in disaster 99% of times 2. "typical businesses" - privatisation generally good idea 3. things inbetween (schools, healthcare) - neither fully privatized or centralized system works well. Usually a combination of both performs much better. Eg. hybrid healthcare system deals with runaway costs by having a baseline health service provided by government and prevents soviet-style wasting, theft of material by employees, black markets and long lines forming by having a parallel market health system alongside. Both can keep each other in check. One has to wonder why countries always deploy it in one of the pure forms.