4 ms·
>If we are the rich west, why can't we just take care of everyone? What does it mean to "take care of everyone"? That their "basic needs" are met? What do you
by Aerroon 6y ago
>If we are the rich west, why can't we just take care of everyone?
What does it mean to "take care of everyone"? That their "basic needs" are met? What do you define as basic needs? I will assume that this will include at least food, housing, and clothing. Is it acceptable to provide everyone with rice? Potatoes? Do we have to provide them meat? Is it acceptable to offer them housing somewhere in the country or does it have to be near where they currently are? If the latter then how do you determine who gets displaced further away?
Now the answer is likely going to be "we give them money, so they can decide". The problem with this answer is that life doesn't cost the same everywhere in the US. $1,000 a month is enough to live on in some areas, whereas others $1,000 will barely get you a living space and nothing else. Obviously you can't give people in more expensive areas more money, because then everyone would want to be in the expensive areas.
So, how much should we give people?
When answering that question keep in mind that there are 330 million people living in the US. If you give everyone $1,000 a month it will cost you $4 trillion. US tax revenues in 2019 amounted to $3.5 trillion.[0]
To put this into perspective: US mandatory spending in 2019 was $2.7 trillion.[1] This is stuff like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, veterans programs etc. You can't just renege on all of these obligations, because the government gave people guarantees on them - that's what they paid taxes for. It's unlikely people would accept less money than what they were promised. Not to mention that you probably couldn't cut Medicare and Medicaid anyway. That's already a trillion gone from the budget.
You probably also can't cut much from discretionary spending. You'd be cutting the military and basically every other non-social service the government does. Stuff like NASA and environmental research etc.
Ultimately, just $1,000 a month per person would require an enormous budget increase to the tune of >$2 trillion a year. Keep in mind that the US budget deficit is already at $1 trillion a year. You'd have a deficit of $3 trillion or require an enormous tax increase (almost doubling tax revenue). And it still hinges on there being no reduction in productivity.
If you then want public healthcare too, then it gets even more expensive. Medicaid covers 64.1 million people[2] at the cost of $409 billion.[1] Getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid and replacing it with healthcare for everyone would add up to an extra cost of ~$1.3 trillion, assuming that the healthcare costs for everyone else is about the same per person as it is for people on Medicaid.
"A trillion here, a trillion there, pretty soon you're talking real money."
[0] https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56324 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56324
[1] https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56325 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56325
[2] https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/program-information/medicaid-and-chip-enrollment-data/report-highlights/index.html https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/program-information/medica...
- collyw 6y agoCoronavirus should be a real wake up call to many of the economic left. A few months of furlough schemes by the government and countries have taken a huge hit to their economies. I have no idea what percentage of people got furloughed, but its clear to see not everyone got furloughed, it was for a few months at most and its going to cost a hell of a lot.
- ddek 6y agoThe obvious justification is that increased government spending is balanced by increased tax revenues, which hasn’t happened in this situation because no one is able to work or spend. I don’t see how the cost of furlough is an argument against higher spending. No one thought it would be anything other than mad spending with little immediate gratification. The payoff comes from, well, not plunging masses into poverty for not foreseeing the greatest economic disruption since 1939.
- jostylr 6y agoThe goal is to ensure people have a minimum. Taxing money back is perfectly fine if you need to. People can move to less expensive areas which the UBI facilitates. This makes expensive areas less expensive as well. In terms of how much to give, the idea is to eliminate poverty. Children should not grow up hungry and fearful nor in shame of their parents. That is the fundamental goal. Our current welfare programs do not address this (see Tyranny of Kindness from 1993 for an in-depth personal account of the system then -- it has not improved though it has changed). So go with the poverty threshhold numbers and see how it goes. I think $1000 a month sounds perfectly reasonable. Also, various programs are income related and so without changing them at all, they can become less needed. As for healthcare, while I am dubious about government run healthcare, from what I've read, the government pays for over half of the healthcare costs in this country already. The US also spends twice as much in terms of GDP on healthcare as most other countries. So if we were to reduce the healthcare costs to the level of other countries, then our government could cover universal healthcare without paying more for that. And since premiums would disappear, it could even tax a lot more without changing the ultimate take home pay after taxes + premiums. In theory, that is how it could go. I don't believe it would turn out well, but that's because I don't believe the government would handle healthcare well. It is not because of the cost of it. And given our current system, I could probably be persuaded to try it.