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My understanding is that most proposals for UBI would be funded by raising taxes making it a net-positive income increase only for the "poorest" families (the b

by tgb 6y ago

My understanding is that most proposals for UBI would be funded by raising taxes making it a net-positive income increase only for the "poorest" families (the bottom X% of tax payers, for some X). So the only difference here seems to be a lower-than-desired X, which would be a reasonable test.

eru 6y ago
Yes. Not just most proposals, but all: Unless you get foreigners to pay for your UBI programme, it's always going to be funded by raising taxes, shifting existence welfare around, or something equivalent. But a big part of some people's understanding of UBI is that you want to move all means testing into the tax system, and out of the welfare system. The tax people already keep track of how much money everyone makes. So we don't need to duplicate that bureaucracy.
- Ghjklov 6y ago
  Heh, people were not very into Trump building a wall and "making Mexico pay for it" but let's see what they say about installing UBI and making the rest of the world pay for it.
- tgb 6y ago
  I added "most" specifically because one of the other threads in the comments here is about not funding it through taxes (instead, through printing money).
  - eru 6y ago
    Well, that's just taxing people through inflation.
NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
I think from a government fiscal perspective it's the same, but it's probably not from the viewpoint of the individual participants. i.e. I have a well-paid job but stop working halfway through the year. On a full-year tax basis, I'm not in the bottom X% of tax payers based on my earnings to date. Do I get a UBI check or not for the rest of the year? Since virtually all tax matters are based on averaging income over some long time period (usually a year), it's not a good mechanism to deal with changes in income, and those changes in income (planned or not) are precisely the things which UBI is supposed to help with.

by tgb 6y ago

eru 6y ago

Yes. Not just most proposals, but all: Unless you get foreigners to pay for your UBI programme, it's always going to be funded by raising taxes, shifting existence welfare around, or something equivalent. But a big part of some people's understanding of UBI is that you want to move all means testing into the tax system, and out of the welfare system. The tax people already keep track of how much money everyone makes. So we don't need to duplicate that bureaucracy.

Ghjklov 6y ago
Heh, people were not very into Trump building a wall and "making Mexico pay for it" but let's see what they say about installing UBI and making the rest of the world pay for it.
tgb 6y ago
I added "most" specifically because one of the other threads in the comments here is about not funding it through taxes (instead, through printing money).
- eru 6y ago
  Well, that's just taxing people through inflation.

NovemberWhiskey 6y ago

I think from a government fiscal perspective it's the same, but it's probably not from the viewpoint of the individual participants. i.e. I have a well-paid job but stop working halfway through the year. On a full-year tax basis, I'm not in the bottom X% of tax payers based on my earnings to date. Do I get a UBI check or not for the rest of the year? Since virtually all tax matters are based on averaging income over some long time period (usually a year), it's not a good mechanism to deal with changes in income, and those changes in income (planned or not) are precisely the things which UBI is supposed to help with.