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Imagine if 50 years from now the thing Trump is most remembered for is ending the US' blind eye towards China. Imagine if he's celebrated as the politician who

Imagine if 50 years from now the thing Trump is most remembered for is ending the US' blind eye towards China. Imagine if he's celebrated as the politician who finally acted on principal in a time when the rest of Washington was looking the other way because of cheap manufacturing. Hollywood was tailoring their products to appease the Chinese government and be allowed in the market, anyone who wanted to do business there like NBA owners and players were biting their tongues and hiding their political opinions. But not Trump, he turned the tide and made America care about human freedom again. Ok, fine, crazy thought. But it raises the question, why aren't any of our other leaders even pretending to try and be that person?

skissane 6y ago
I think another Trump decision which may be viewed as important by historians in 50+ years time is the establishment of the US Space Force.
- Retric 6y ago
  Why does reorganization of Air Force Space Command into a separate organization seem like a big deal to you?
  - skissane 6y ago
    Well, for one thing a separate organisation is likely to get more funding. It’s the nature of politics and bureaucracy. And increased military investment in space could produce flow-on benefits to the civilian side of the space industry If the dreams of people like Elon Musk come true, USSF may end up being a far more important organisation than AFSC ever was.
- hpcjoe 6y ago
  I wanted them to open an academy. Even though I am likely too old for it, I'd definitely apply to be a space cadet.
baybal2 6y ago
> Ok, fine, crazy thought. But it raises the question, why aren't any of our other leaders even pretending to try and be that person? Don't you think that's a very easy question to answer? A ton of money, an amount of money serious enough even for America to be made concerned. Pretty much everybody with stock market exposure, including pretty much anybody in USA who counts as an elite, will loose big time if one day Beijing presses the Delete button, and half of Fortune 500 vanishes. Remember, it was Apple out of everybody who was granted an exemption from punitive tariffs on China.
- free_rms 6y ago
  It's not just money, there were decisions made over the course of 30 years that got us to this point. And, yes, those decisions were influenced by money but they were also influenced heavily by American Exceptionalist arrogance. Of course our culture will dominate theirs and they'll take their rightful, subservient place to us in the global order. Never mind that they literally converted their own conquerers to Chinese culture TWICE (mongols/yuan, manchu/qing) in the last millenium.
- toxik 6y ago
  What do you mean “press delete”? China is not in a position to blackmail the US via financial means, not even in the slightest. If they sold their treasuries, they would be bought in a heartbeat by others with a penchant for stable valuation.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    > What do you mean “press delete”? I mean they would prohibit all vital operations of these companies in China. What would Apple do if China will give them a Huawei treatment? They wouldn't even be able to move away from China, if their Chinese suppliers would be told to cease doing business with Apple globally. Pretty much every globally prominent company dealing with light industries, manufacturing, electronics has some things in their products which they cannot reasonably expect to get elsewhere but in/from China. Second to that: check what you saw in the previous half of the year. A lot of living essentials are made almost solely in China. Would US elites be ready to deal with angry unwashed masses who, with some help, and incitement, would go torch their houses because they can't get not only their new Iphone, but basic medicines, clothing, car parts, basic household goods, widgets for their businesses, and such? Unless Americans are ready for that, they can't fight China, and the people in Beijing know it very well.
oxymoran 6y ago
Nobody wants to stand up to China and it’s going to lead us to a very dark place. I fear we either go to war or we just acquiesce and become similar to China. I really hope we can avoid the whole bloody cultural revolution part. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxi_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxi_Massacre
- esyir 6y ago
  From my perspective though, your cultural revolution might be already on its way, with a more genital cancellation, rather than execution.
jdhn 6y ago
I don't see how this is an unrealistic scenario. The rehabilitation of George Bush's image happened faster than I ever thought it would. In a decade he (Bush) went from a despised president who got us involved in 2 major wars, eroded our civil liberties, and oversaw an almost unprecendented economic bust to some loveable goof who paints pictures, has trouble putting on a poncho, pals around with Ellen, and, most recently, has been praised for being skeptical of a second Trump term.
- chrononaut 6y ago
  Can you expand upon what audience you are referring to in context of the "rehabilitation of George Bush"? Political scientists have remained pretty consistent on his image over the last 20 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_preside...
  - jdhn 6y ago
    Audience means online communities that I frequent, which is primarily Reddit.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      People tend to be nostalgic for the years soon after their birth because to them it seems like a time when everything seemed simple because they were too young to be aware of the world. Guess which age group has an outsize influence on Reddit?
  - freshpots 6y ago
    The average person looks back quite fondly on him in retrospect thanks to the Trump Crime Administration. Even though there are many things Bush has done that were far worse like the Iraq war.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > I don't see how this is an unrealistic scenario. The rehabilitation of George Bush's image happened faster than I ever thought it would. Trump isn't going to be rehabilitated like Bush. Politics aside, George Bush seems like a genuinely decent guy at a personal level. Trump, on the other hand, is a nasty, selfish bully; he always has been one, and he always will be one. As long as he remains alive, he will constantly remind America if his nature.
dng88 6y ago
And university may try to please the chinese as well. There is a break. And like it or not it starts with a rule ignored guy.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jgwil2 6y ago
Maybe if he hadn't already squandered all of the US's international credibility before making this move it would have been a bit more effective.
ardy42 6y ago
> Imagine if 50 years from now the thing Trump is most remembered for is ending the US' blind eye towards China. > Imagine if he's celebrated as the politician who finally acted on principal in a time when the rest of Washington was looking the other way because of cheap manufacturing. Trump won't be celebrated, since there's no strategy behind what he does: it's all short term self-interest. Bolton says he begged Xi in person to buy US farm products to help with his re-election (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53086042 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53086042) and approved of the concentration camps that are being sanctioned here (https://www.axios.com/trump-uighur-muslim-bolton-73ebf1e2-9d34-4aaf-a9ba-17340d2847e4.html https://www.axios.com/trump-uighur-muslim-bolton-73ebf1e2-9d...). If anything, Trump's bumbling, impulsive actions caused aspects of an already solidifying consensus on China to firm up a little quicker.

skissane 6y ago

I think another Trump decision which may be viewed as important by historians in 50+ years time is the establishment of the US Space Force.

Retric 6y ago
Why does reorganization of Air Force Space Command into a separate organization seem like a big deal to you?
- skissane 6y ago
  Well, for one thing a separate organisation is likely to get more funding. It’s the nature of politics and bureaucracy. And increased military investment in space could produce flow-on benefits to the civilian side of the space industry If the dreams of people like Elon Musk come true, USSF may end up being a far more important organisation than AFSC ever was.
hpcjoe 6y ago
I wanted them to open an academy. Even though I am likely too old for it, I'd definitely apply to be a space cadet.

baybal2 6y ago

> Ok, fine, crazy thought. But it raises the question, why aren't any of our other leaders even pretending to try and be that person? Don't you think that's a very easy question to answer? A ton of money, an amount of money serious enough even for America to be made concerned. Pretty much everybody with stock market exposure, including pretty much anybody in USA who counts as an elite, will loose big time if one day Beijing presses the Delete button, and half of Fortune 500 vanishes. Remember, it was Apple out of everybody who was granted an exemption from punitive tariffs on China.

free_rms 6y ago
It's not just money, there were decisions made over the course of 30 years that got us to this point. And, yes, those decisions were influenced by money but they were also influenced heavily by American Exceptionalist arrogance. Of course our culture will dominate theirs and they'll take their rightful, subservient place to us in the global order. Never mind that they literally converted their own conquerers to Chinese culture TWICE (mongols/yuan, manchu/qing) in the last millenium.
toxik 6y ago
What do you mean “press delete”? China is not in a position to blackmail the US via financial means, not even in the slightest. If they sold their treasuries, they would be bought in a heartbeat by others with a penchant for stable valuation.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > What do you mean “press delete”? I mean they would prohibit all vital operations of these companies in China. What would Apple do if China will give them a Huawei treatment? They wouldn't even be able to move away from China, if their Chinese suppliers would be told to cease doing business with Apple globally. Pretty much every globally prominent company dealing with light industries, manufacturing, electronics has some things in their products which they cannot reasonably expect to get elsewhere but in/from China. Second to that: check what you saw in the previous half of the year. A lot of living essentials are made almost solely in China. Would US elites be ready to deal with angry unwashed masses who, with some help, and incitement, would go torch their houses because they can't get not only their new Iphone, but basic medicines, clothing, car parts, basic household goods, widgets for their businesses, and such? Unless Americans are ready for that, they can't fight China, and the people in Beijing know it very well.

oxymoran 6y ago

Nobody wants to stand up to China and it’s going to lead us to a very dark place. I fear we either go to war or we just acquiesce and become similar to China. I really hope we can avoid the whole bloody cultural revolution part. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxi_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxi_Massacre

esyir 6y ago
From my perspective though, your cultural revolution might be already on its way, with a more genital cancellation, rather than execution.

jdhn 6y ago

I don't see how this is an unrealistic scenario. The rehabilitation of George Bush's image happened faster than I ever thought it would. In a decade he (Bush) went from a despised president who got us involved in 2 major wars, eroded our civil liberties, and oversaw an almost unprecendented economic bust to some loveable goof who paints pictures, has trouble putting on a poncho, pals around with Ellen, and, most recently, has been praised for being skeptical of a second Trump term.

chrononaut 6y ago
Can you expand upon what audience you are referring to in context of the "rehabilitation of George Bush"? Political scientists have remained pretty consistent on his image over the last 20 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_preside...
- jdhn 6y ago
  Audience means online communities that I frequent, which is primarily Reddit.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    People tend to be nostalgic for the years soon after their birth because to them it seems like a time when everything seemed simple because they were too young to be aware of the world. Guess which age group has an outsize influence on Reddit?
- freshpots 6y ago
  The average person looks back quite fondly on him in retrospect thanks to the Trump Crime Administration. Even though there are many things Bush has done that were far worse like the Iraq war.
ardy42 6y ago
> I don't see how this is an unrealistic scenario. The rehabilitation of George Bush's image happened faster than I ever thought it would. Trump isn't going to be rehabilitated like Bush. Politics aside, George Bush seems like a genuinely decent guy at a personal level. Trump, on the other hand, is a nasty, selfish bully; he always has been one, and he always will be one. As long as he remains alive, he will constantly remind America if his nature.

dng88 6y ago

And university may try to please the chinese as well. There is a break. And like it or not it starts with a rule ignored guy.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jgwil2 6y ago

Maybe if he hadn't already squandered all of the US's international credibility before making this move it would have been a bit more effective.

ardy42 6y ago

> Imagine if 50 years from now the thing Trump is most remembered for is ending the US' blind eye towards China. > Imagine if he's celebrated as the politician who finally acted on principal in a time when the rest of Washington was looking the other way because of cheap manufacturing. Trump won't be celebrated, since there's no strategy behind what he does: it's all short term self-interest. Bolton says he begged Xi in person to buy US farm products to help with his re-election (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53086042 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53086042) and approved of the concentration camps that are being sanctioned here (https://www.axios.com/trump-uighur-muslim-bolton-73ebf1e2-9d34-4aaf-a9ba-17340d2847e4.html https://www.axios.com/trump-uighur-muslim-bolton-73ebf1e2-9d...). If anything, Trump's bumbling, impulsive actions caused aspects of an already solidifying consensus on China to firm up a little quicker.