4 ms·

Hmmm this article says a lot without really saying anything. It concludes with implication that we should stop shaming people for posting selfies, without tackl

by harryf 6y ago

Hmmm this article says a lot without really saying anything. It concludes with implication that we should stop shaming people for posting selfies, without tackling the question "why do people publish selfies in the first place?" or managing to refute the idea that it's narcissistic. This paper https://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/linqiu/publications/selfie.pdf https://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/linqiu/publications/selfie.pdf shows... > " that selfies reflect their owners’ personality traits. We identified a number of personality-related cues. For example, emotional positivity predicts agreeableness and open-ness, duckface indicates neuroticism, and private location in the background indicates less conscientiousness. These cues reflect the characteristics of their corresponding personality traits" Meanwhile the article focused on the Oxford dictionary definition of selfie. I'd argue it's far more interesting to look at the urbandictionary definitions - there are over 70 definitions here - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Selfie https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Selfie some of which are over 10 years old like this one from 2009... > A picture taken of yourself that is planned to be uploaded to Facebook, Myspace or any other sort of social networking website. You can usually see the person's arm holding out the camera in which case you can clearly tell that this person does not have any friends to take pictures of them so they resort to Myspace to find internet friends and post pictures of themselves, taken by themselves. A selfie is usually accompanied by a kissy face or the individual looking in a direction that is not towards the camera. Duck face was called "kissy face" back then apparently. Anyway it's interesting to see how a definition on urbandictionary has evolved over time and I'd argue the urbandictionary is a better gauge of groupthink on a topic like this than the Oxford Dictionary.

WilTimSon 6y ago
> private location in the background indicates less conscientiousness Wait, I'm struggling with this one. How does showing off a private location (I presume this means someone's home, a bedroom, etc?) indicate that they are less conscientious? The paper says "more conscientious individuals are less likely to reveal their personal space in the background." However, this seems to me like it should be using "cautious" instead of "conscientious". Not being eager to show off your personal space indicates apprehension and carefulness with what you share, I never associated these with conscientiousness.
- jrumbut 6y ago
  My reading was that private place could be read as bathroom or an unkempt bedroom rather than, say, a well decorated study or private photo studio.
EForEndeavour 6y ago
> Duck face was called "kissy face" back then apparently Although "duck face" was a thing by 2007, evidently it hadn't made it into the vocabulary of that particular Urban Dictionary contributor in 2009: https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/duck-lips/#:~:text=The%20first%20Urban%20Dictionary%20entry,meme%20took%20off%20from%20there https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/duck-lips/#:~:text=The%20....
082349872349872 6y ago
We shouldn't shame people for posting selfies, because without selfies there could be no meta-selfie: http://panevin.ru/uploads/blog/2016/lenin_selfi_1024-2.jpg http://panevin.ru/uploads/blog/2016/lenin_selfi_1024-2.jpg (not only was Lenin a mushroom, but he invented the selfie before the west?)
hippich 6y ago
We should not shame people - that should be enough on its own IMHO :)
- harryf 6y ago
  Is that truly an absolute? “You we’re texting and driving. You could have killed someone!” And if you genuinely believe people posting selfies are narcissists, does this mean you should ignore and keep quiet?
  - hippich 6y ago
    I can see why would you care about texting and driving (and why there are laws against it). Why would you care about selfies?
  - ghostpepper 6y ago
    Are we talking about whether it's morally defensible to shame someone for doing something irresponsible (like texting and driving) or whether it's actually likely to change their behavior (ie. whether it's good for society). The latter does not seem to clear cut; there are likely better, more positive ways to change behavior. Shame is more likely to make the person get better at hiding their irresponsible behavior, which is actually counterproductive for society. I'm still not convinced that shame is ever a useful tool.
- asa4akj 6y ago
  Completely disagree. Shame is a very potent society shaping factor. Without it humans wouldn't be as civilized. So we should just use shame appropriately.
  - hippich 6y ago
    Intuitively, I agree with potential shaping factor. But shaming making people civilized - that certainly deserves a citation. But that's all besides the point. Judging by myself only of course, I seriously doubt people shame others because of the duty to higher purpose (making people civilized).

by harryf 6y ago

WilTimSon 6y ago

> private location in the background indicates less conscientiousness Wait, I'm struggling with this one. How does showing off a private location (I presume this means someone's home, a bedroom, etc?) indicate that they are less conscientious? The paper says "more conscientious individuals are less likely to reveal their personal space in the background." However, this seems to me like it should be using "cautious" instead of "conscientious". Not being eager to show off your personal space indicates apprehension and carefulness with what you share, I never associated these with conscientiousness.

jrumbut 6y ago
My reading was that private place could be read as bathroom or an unkempt bedroom rather than, say, a well decorated study or private photo studio.

EForEndeavour 6y ago

> Duck face was called "kissy face" back then apparently Although "duck face" was a thing by 2007, evidently it hadn't made it into the vocabulary of that particular Urban Dictionary contributor in 2009: https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/duck-lips/#:~:text=The%20first%20Urban%20Dictionary%20entry,meme%20took%20off%20from%20there https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/duck-lips/#:~:text=The%20....

082349872349872 6y ago

We shouldn't shame people for posting selfies, because without selfies there could be no meta-selfie: http://panevin.ru/uploads/blog/2016/lenin_selfi_1024-2.jpg http://panevin.ru/uploads/blog/2016/lenin_selfi_1024-2.jpg (not only was Lenin a mushroom, but he invented the selfie before the west?)

hippich 6y ago

We should not shame people - that should be enough on its own IMHO :)

harryf 6y ago
Is that truly an absolute? “You we’re texting and driving. You could have killed someone!” And if you genuinely believe people posting selfies are narcissists, does this mean you should ignore and keep quiet?
- hippich 6y ago
  I can see why would you care about texting and driving (and why there are laws against it). Why would you care about selfies?
- ghostpepper 6y ago
  Are we talking about whether it's morally defensible to shame someone for doing something irresponsible (like texting and driving) or whether it's actually likely to change their behavior (ie. whether it's good for society). The latter does not seem to clear cut; there are likely better, more positive ways to change behavior. Shame is more likely to make the person get better at hiding their irresponsible behavior, which is actually counterproductive for society. I'm still not convinced that shame is ever a useful tool.
asa4akj 6y ago
Completely disagree. Shame is a very potent society shaping factor. Without it humans wouldn't be as civilized. So we should just use shame appropriately.
- hippich 6y ago
  Intuitively, I agree with potential shaping factor. But shaming making people civilized - that certainly deserves a citation. But that's all besides the point. Judging by myself only of course, I seriously doubt people shame others because of the duty to higher purpose (making people civilized).