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> it's more than a little silly to blame it on the Turks. Not somebody who would be ready to unconditionally defend Bulgarians, but here I don't agree at all.

by acqq 6y ago

> it's more than a little silly to blame it on the Turks. Not somebody who would be ready to unconditionally defend Bulgarians, but here I don't agree at all. The "Turks" weren't there "500 years ago" they were there for more than 500 years and were there even 200 years ago, and during these centuries all the "non-Turks" lived in the constant very strong discrimination, across the huge empire that included a big part of Mediterranean: https://cdn.britannica.com/89/4789-050-B6176F52/Expansion-Ottoman-Empire.jpg https://cdn.britannica.com/89/4789-050-B6176F52/Expansion-Ot... It's not an excuse but a fact. I know it's today fashionable to ignore centuries lasting discrimination of huge swaths of population, but it's wrong.

pvg 6y ago
they were there for more than 500 years I think that qualifies you for not a 'they'. That's an 'us'.
- acqq 6y ago
  > not a 'they' I dully confirm, I'm definitely not an apologetic of Ottoman empire. One of the greatest things that happened to the 20th century was the abolition of Caliphate, March 1924. That allowed huge changes in the minds of people in some former parts of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzBVCcpn_iY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzBVCcpn_iY Last decades we observe immense attempts for these changes to be undone, and they are more successful that most would like to admit. It's not about any ethnicity, it's about the politics and the system based on the oppression.
  - pvg 6y ago
    I guess I don't understand how a video of Nasser is supposed to convince me Bulgarian ethnic and religious minorities are any less Bulgarian than they are.
    - acqq 6y ago
      > Bulgarian ethnic and religious minorities Note that I never talked about "Bulgarian ethnic and religious minorities". My perspective was much broader. If you ever believed I'm part of these specific minorities, I can assure you I'm not. If you happen to be a member of these, and you don't agree with my perspective, it's also understandable, I admit however that I've missed that this "they" and "us" could also be interpreted in that way. My "us" was in the sense "us who don't hide the historical facts when they are not favorable to some." But that could give a hint why it was important for you to disclaim the blame. Current minorities of course can't be blamed for the period when the oppressors identified themselves with the same name. > less Bulgarian than they are Where did you get that idea that somebody here wrote something like that?
Gibbon1 6y ago
Yeah not sure of of it's historically unique but 100 years ago, the Ottoman, Austro Hungarian empires fell apart. If it weren't for the communists the Russian Empire would have. And yet it didn't last yet another 70 years. And the British Empire broke up over the mid twenties century. That said the Ottoman Empire seems like a badly run affair for a long time.

by acqq 6y ago

pvg 6y ago

they were there for more than 500 years I think that qualifies you for not a 'they'. That's an 'us'.

acqq 6y ago
> not a 'they' I dully confirm, I'm definitely not an apologetic of Ottoman empire. One of the greatest things that happened to the 20th century was the abolition of Caliphate, March 1924. That allowed huge changes in the minds of people in some former parts of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzBVCcpn_iY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzBVCcpn_iY Last decades we observe immense attempts for these changes to be undone, and they are more successful that most would like to admit. It's not about any ethnicity, it's about the politics and the system based on the oppression.
- pvg 6y ago
  I guess I don't understand how a video of Nasser is supposed to convince me Bulgarian ethnic and religious minorities are any less Bulgarian than they are.
  - acqq 6y ago
    > Bulgarian ethnic and religious minorities Note that I never talked about "Bulgarian ethnic and religious minorities". My perspective was much broader. If you ever believed I'm part of these specific minorities, I can assure you I'm not. If you happen to be a member of these, and you don't agree with my perspective, it's also understandable, I admit however that I've missed that this "they" and "us" could also be interpreted in that way. My "us" was in the sense "us who don't hide the historical facts when they are not favorable to some." But that could give a hint why it was important for you to disclaim the blame. Current minorities of course can't be blamed for the period when the oppressors identified themselves with the same name. > less Bulgarian than they are Where did you get that idea that somebody here wrote something like that?

Gibbon1 6y ago

Yeah not sure of of it's historically unique but 100 years ago, the Ottoman, Austro Hungarian empires fell apart. If it weren't for the communists the Russian Empire would have. And yet it didn't last yet another 70 years. And the British Empire broke up over the mid twenties century. That said the Ottoman Empire seems like a badly run affair for a long time.