6 ms·

Within reason right? I'm hoping that 'the right to consume anything they want for any reason' wouldn't include those things that cause sudden violent behavior a

Within reason right? I'm hoping that 'the right to consume anything they want for any reason' wouldn't include those things that cause sudden violent behavior and inability to feel fear and pain. I forget which particular drug does this, but a search brought me to meth and I found this article which says people feel 'invincible' and 'paranoid' and can't be stopped with non-lethal means. https://www.cpr.org/2020/02/05/suspects-on-meth-are-hard-to-take-down-with-tasers-so-many-end-up-dead-in-colorado/ https://www.cpr.org/2020/02/05/suspects-on-meth-are-hard-to-...

Darkphibre 6y ago
Pretty sure you are thinking of PCP, which was advertised as causing these behaviors in the 70s and 80s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine
- smokelegend 6y ago
  PCP, dippers(cigarettes dipped in PCP liquid solution), loveboat (powdered PCP sprinkled on a weed blunt) is still a huge issue in urban US city's. The effects vary per individual but the higher the dosage the more psychoactive effects are felt. I've seen a naked guy take on 8 DC cops....yes 8 police officers, and after being tased 3 times the guy finally went down.(first two attempts didn't take) But he was tossing grown 200-300lbs adult men like they were paper weights. The amount of force it took those officers to over come this one person on PCP was insane. Definitely not something you want to run into.
jeffdavis 6y ago
Let's start by eliminating federal drug laws, and leave it up to the states whether they want to pass laws against it. Then, have a hard conversation about what freedom means, and whether restrictions on it really lead to better outcomes. Usually not.
- berryjerry 6y ago
  You need to have federal drug laws because the one thing the federal government is supposed to do is manage the borders and relationships with other countries. If you don't have federal drug laws then bringing drugs across the border stops being a crime and we could end up with the fiasco of drug lords that Mexico has where journalists get beheaded for even reporting on it.
  - Reelin 6y ago
    Mexico only has drug lords because US drug laws fuel their black market. If you are skeptical of this, there are academic papers on the topic. You could also examine the history books regarding the rise of organized crime there. (For that matter, the rise of organized crime in the US was largely fueled by the prohibition of alcohol as far as I understand it.)
  - jeffdavis 6y ago
    I am confused about what you mean. First, the federal government clearly has authority over international commerce. Second, the price of drugs in legal markets would be much lower, which would likely reduce revenue for criminal gangs in foreign lands. Third, the U.S.-Mexico border is long and it's hard to enforce smuggling laws, anyway. And fourth, Americans are quite capable of producing drugs on their own, and even more so if they were legal.
    - squiggleblaz 6y ago
      Cigarette smuggling is a thing because regulated cigarettes are more expensive than unregulated cigarettes. Why would that be any different for other drugs?
      - jeffdavis 6y ago
        The revenue of bootleggers is sharply down since the 21st Amendment, because many people still choose to buy legal alcohol rather than moonshine.
stickfigure 6y ago
You must be thinking of the devil weed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhQlcMHhF3w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhQlcMHhF3w
femiagbabiaka 6y ago
Fortunately there is no drug that has any such innate effect. Care has to be taken when extrapolating meaning from crime statistics, especially when it comes to police. They lie and rely on bad science, like the idea of excited delirium: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excited_delirium https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excited_delirium
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
As a long time on-and-off meth addict and dealer, I'll tell you one thing: Helluva drug! Not convinced I'd want society to have unrestricted access to that one.
- Reelin 6y ago
  Meth is used to tread ADHD under the trade name Desoxyn. Alternatives include other amphetamines which exhibit substantially similar effects. A significant portion of the population consumes amphetamines on a daily basis and manages not to go on crime sprees. Perhaps it isn't the drugs which are the problem?
  - mirimir 6y ago
    Dosage is a major factor. Smoking meth is way different from eating Desoxyn. Even lots of Desoxyn. Edit: Dosage and route both matter a lot.
    - Reelin 6y ago
      Agreed regarding route - I didn't mean to imply that all patterns of use were equivalent. I was trying to illustrate that it isn't some bogeyman that will swallow you whole. The drug alone simply cannot explain the issues that are often attributed to it. My point here is that many drugs have been demonized to a wholly unscientific degree and I often witness otherwise well educated and thoughtful people zealously perpetuating such myths without stopping to really think them through. IMO blaming bad behavior and even addiction on drugs is an easy out which avoids addressing the much more complicated underlying issues. Overdoses, abuse, addiction, and crime seem to me to be largely to blame on other systemic societal problems. As always, correlation does not imply causality.
      - mirimir 6y ago
        Yes, I entirely agree about drugs being demonized. And I believe that people get to choose what drugs to use, and how to use them. But that also means that they're responsible for consequences. Indeed, some drugs are so demonized that many who use them do get swallowed whole. Because it's what they expect, and part of the motivation.
on_and_off 6y ago
do you want to ban alcohol ?
dr_dshiv 6y ago
Seems like you can just require a license or prescription that can be taken away

Darkphibre 6y ago

Pretty sure you are thinking of PCP, which was advertised as causing these behaviors in the 70s and 80s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine

smokelegend 6y ago
PCP, dippers(cigarettes dipped in PCP liquid solution), loveboat (powdered PCP sprinkled on a weed blunt) is still a huge issue in urban US city's. The effects vary per individual but the higher the dosage the more psychoactive effects are felt. I've seen a naked guy take on 8 DC cops....yes 8 police officers, and after being tased 3 times the guy finally went down.(first two attempts didn't take) But he was tossing grown 200-300lbs adult men like they were paper weights. The amount of force it took those officers to over come this one person on PCP was insane. Definitely not something you want to run into.

jeffdavis 6y ago

Let's start by eliminating federal drug laws, and leave it up to the states whether they want to pass laws against it. Then, have a hard conversation about what freedom means, and whether restrictions on it really lead to better outcomes. Usually not.

berryjerry 6y ago
You need to have federal drug laws because the one thing the federal government is supposed to do is manage the borders and relationships with other countries. If you don't have federal drug laws then bringing drugs across the border stops being a crime and we could end up with the fiasco of drug lords that Mexico has where journalists get beheaded for even reporting on it.
- Reelin 6y ago
  Mexico only has drug lords because US drug laws fuel their black market. If you are skeptical of this, there are academic papers on the topic. You could also examine the history books regarding the rise of organized crime there. (For that matter, the rise of organized crime in the US was largely fueled by the prohibition of alcohol as far as I understand it.)
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  I am confused about what you mean. First, the federal government clearly has authority over international commerce. Second, the price of drugs in legal markets would be much lower, which would likely reduce revenue for criminal gangs in foreign lands. Third, the U.S.-Mexico border is long and it's hard to enforce smuggling laws, anyway. And fourth, Americans are quite capable of producing drugs on their own, and even more so if they were legal.
  - squiggleblaz 6y ago
    Cigarette smuggling is a thing because regulated cigarettes are more expensive than unregulated cigarettes. Why would that be any different for other drugs?
    - jeffdavis 6y ago
      The revenue of bootleggers is sharply down since the 21st Amendment, because many people still choose to buy legal alcohol rather than moonshine.

stickfigure 6y ago

You must be thinking of the devil weed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhQlcMHhF3w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhQlcMHhF3w

femiagbabiaka 6y ago

Fortunately there is no drug that has any such innate effect. Care has to be taken when extrapolating meaning from crime statistics, especially when it comes to police. They lie and rely on bad science, like the idea of excited delirium: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excited_delirium https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excited_delirium

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

As a long time on-and-off meth addict and dealer, I'll tell you one thing: Helluva drug! Not convinced I'd want society to have unrestricted access to that one.

Reelin 6y ago
Meth is used to tread ADHD under the trade name Desoxyn. Alternatives include other amphetamines which exhibit substantially similar effects. A significant portion of the population consumes amphetamines on a daily basis and manages not to go on crime sprees. Perhaps it isn't the drugs which are the problem?
- mirimir 6y ago
  Dosage is a major factor. Smoking meth is way different from eating Desoxyn. Even lots of Desoxyn. Edit: Dosage and route both matter a lot.
  - Reelin 6y ago
    Agreed regarding route - I didn't mean to imply that all patterns of use were equivalent. I was trying to illustrate that it isn't some bogeyman that will swallow you whole. The drug alone simply cannot explain the issues that are often attributed to it. My point here is that many drugs have been demonized to a wholly unscientific degree and I often witness otherwise well educated and thoughtful people zealously perpetuating such myths without stopping to really think them through. IMO blaming bad behavior and even addiction on drugs is an easy out which avoids addressing the much more complicated underlying issues. Overdoses, abuse, addiction, and crime seem to me to be largely to blame on other systemic societal problems. As always, correlation does not imply causality.
    - mirimir 6y ago
      Yes, I entirely agree about drugs being demonized. And I believe that people get to choose what drugs to use, and how to use them. But that also means that they're responsible for consequences. Indeed, some drugs are so demonized that many who use them do get swallowed whole. Because it's what they expect, and part of the motivation.

on_and_off 6y ago

do you want to ban alcohol ?

dr_dshiv 6y ago

Seems like you can just require a license or prescription that can be taken away