6 ms·

How to evaluate a non-technical co-founder

87 points by nathanh 16y ago

lolizbak 16y ago
Good points. The contrary is way more difficult i think... (me being a biz founder, finding tech partners or employees can be really tricky). For the non-tech guys, in an early stage startup, i would definitely look at : - product skills => can the guy understand what customers/users need ? and if he doesn't, will he ask them? - tech skills => you guys need to speak the same language. even if he's a beginner, has he tried coding in RoR, php, python, ...? will you speak the same language? - network => does he know investors and bloggers? or at least know people who know them? - traction and community => can the guy move heaven and earth to get people on board? - recklessness => is he okay with the risk, the absence of salary, the non-benefits, ...?
- lolizbak 16y ago
  And actually, the most important thing: he crashed a startup already, and one of the reasons, he reckons, was the lack of a tech cofounder. You got yourself a jewel in that case :)
petervandijck 16y ago
Easiest way: what have they done in the past. Past performance and future performance and all that.
bpeters 16y ago
Being a biz founder I picked up technical skills and built a crappy (MVP of MVP's) prototype to pitch to tech founders. If the non-tech founder can't even learn enough code to get anything built then I would be concerned for their level of dedication for their own idea. Even though my prototype was terrible and even made the other founders laugh, they could see my level of dedication and my ability to get something done. To me being a biz founder we need to be the scapegoat of the startup, no pride all humility and can sell the shit out of anything.
- trustfundbaby 16y ago
  If the non-tech founder can't even learn enough code to get anything built then I would be concerned for their level of dedication for their own idea. --------------------- I think thats a little much. Part of being a good business man is knowing where you weaknesses lie, and knowing how to plug those holes in your game. So why would you waste valuable time trying to pick up a skill that you're probably not interesting in having and will probably not put to use, when you can spend that time raising money to hire a developer or get one to come in with you and handle the development?
  - lolizbak 16y ago
    Cause we're building startups. Period. If you were to open a farm in the midwest, would you really hire an IBM sales rep to sell your farm products who never milked a cow before?
    - th 16y ago
      Not quite the same. If a non-technical founder is looking to pitch a website idea to developers and they have they are choosing to spend time picking up HTML and JavaScript or throwing together detailed mocks for each page, the mocks would probably be better use of their time.
  - coolgeek 16y ago
    You're missing the point - it's about proving dedication. Building a prototype, no matter how crappy, tells potential tech cofounders that you're less likely to bail when you see something shinier. That said, raising money (or investing your own) would indeed serve the same purpose.
    - trustfundbaby 16y ago
      Actually I think you're missing the point. What I was responding to was this -----> If the non-tech founder can't even learn enough code to get anything built then I would be concerned for their level of dedication for their own idea Just because a guy doesn't go to learn how to code doesn't mean you should immediately get worried about their dedication to their project. I see the point you're trying to make, and I agree with it, but it quite different from what I was addressing.
nhangen 16y ago
I'm a NT co-founder trying to become a technical founder, so this is an interesting read. To be honest, I think the most value that someone like that can bring is a network. If you can get introductions, some PR, and some buzz, then you can get enough cash from sales to buy some of the other necessities.
PaulHoule 16y ago
The article oddly seems to be a converse of the often asked "how do i find a technical co-founder?" It seems to assume that you're a technical person who is looking for somebody else's start-up to join. Personally I'd like to know what to do if you're a technical person with some technical ~AND~ business ideas, who's got a product that's got a little traction and is looking for someone who can help with marketing and execution.
- Rariel 16y ago
  I think it depends on what type of marketing you need, e.g. online ad sales? B2b? Where you're trying to go with your startup or business probably should determine what type of help you need.
GeoffreyHull 16y ago
I'll probably get down-voted for this being as though this is Hacker News and the majority of people here are "tech types" as opposed to "biz types". However as a biz founder its probably necessary to speak up: Common philosophies I hear exposited in tech circles is, "Biz co-founders are a dime a dozen" and “Good ideas, in and of themselves, are worthless”. The argument being everyone on the planet is capable of formulating ideas, thus “good” ideas can be found in overwhelming abundance. One may hear this suggestion advanced amongst mostly “tech types”, such as programmers, developers, engineers, etc. Many of them believe value is derived from the conversion of an idea into a physical product. What group of people are typically required to convert the idea into a physical product? Why the programmers, developers, and engineers of course! In this type of climate, the notion that good ideas alone being worthless or that biz co-founders are worth less than their tech counterparts becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. This notion is advanced by none other than those that stand to gain the most from it: the programmers, developers, and engineers. Sorry guys. I don't buy it. Read more on this phenomenon here: http://thegeoffreyhull.com/post/3767537182 http://thegeoffreyhull.com/post/3767537182.
- Rariel 16y ago
  I've thought a lot about this "Great Team v. Great idea" and I think what you're saying is partially true. You have great teams failing right this very second, and it's viewed as ok given that they are, well, great teams. But that still leaves them failing. I think a major problem is that neither the biz nor the tech co-founders are the lynch pin, it's the correct combo of both + an amazing idea + that 'never give up' determination + timing. I think there are a lot of people getting full of themselves, be it devs, biz people, or VCs. I think it would do us all well to realize that yes, we DO need each other.
- benmathes 16y ago
  Certainly the execution _alone_ isn't the only thing that matters. The idea _alone_ also isn't the only thing that matters. Both engineering and product/biz types are needed to turn an idea into a good business. That's execution. Engineers aren't the only ones who can execute and pivot.
- porter 16y ago
baberuth 16y ago
A lot of good points in there, but it seems to be a little bit on the "developer centric fantasy" side of things, particularly on the Traction section. Non tech cofounders that are getting 30 users before trying to find a technical cofounder aren't having trouble finding tech cofounders. Non tech cofounders that have 10 people committed to paying up to 1000/mo and signed letters of intent from the 5 of them (120k/year, 60k guaranteed) before building a product are few and far between. These guys are gems, and betting on them is a good bet. Its like non-tech founders trying to partner with proven Facebook employee #13. Unless you're equally proven as a dev, its hard to justify asking for that level of accomplishment from your cofounder. Much of the "find a cofounder" game is about making good decisions when its not such an obvious call.
- sskates 16y ago
  "This is not just speculation: from our position (Hirelite connects developers with companies looking to hire them via speed interviewing over video chat), startups value a developer about 50% more than a non-technical person with a similar level of experience/skill/etc" They have some basis that developers are more valuable based on market forces alone, which means that you need to set your expectations accordingly.
- haploid 16y ago
  "Non tech cofounders that have 10 people committed to paying up to 1000/mo and signed letters of intent from the 5 of them (120k/year, 60k guaranteed) before building a product are few and far between." What? I would suggest that the abovereferenced set of cofounders is equal to the null set. I can't imagine anyone dumb enough to commit to a $12k annual contract for vaporware from a company whose very existence is contingent on finding 9 other suckers just as dumb as you are. The closest model I can think of is games software publishing, but that exists in an area with a known customer base. Nobody in the real world, running a real enterprise, with real money on the line, would gamble like that - at least none of the people I work with.
  - dman 16y ago
    Well definitely not the null set. Bloomberg had Merill Lynch basically fund his entire development before the product even existed.
jonnathanson 16y ago
1) Non-tech co-founders need to really understand their target segment on an intimate level. They may not be able to write all the code, but they should be the masters of the user domain and/or business domain that the product is going to serve. They should know what the right strategic goals of the business should be, given their target user. They should know exactly what problem they're trying to solve, for whom, and (roughly) how. 2) They should also have strong, well-informed opinions about UX. Take them to task on what makes a good UX or even a good UI. Press them for examples of good and bad UX design, or have them walk you through a mockup of something you've done in the past. You should be interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you. They should have theories and opinions on how UX affects business strategy, and vice versa, and not just opinions on what looks pretty or simple. You want to get the impression that this person would have made (or was) a great product manager at a big company, had he or she not been a founder. 3) They should be great salesmen (or women), but not bullshit artists. There's often a fine line here, but the red flags are usually obvious. Look at his or her track record. Look at the realism of his or her vision. Look at his or her ability to model and properly account for risk, competitive threat, etc. If you can pinpoint a critical dependency or risk to the business that he or she can't, that's a bad sign. 4) They should be willing and able to bust their asses and constantly learn. They should not expect to kick back and let you build the product for them. Sort of hard to suss this out in conversation alone, but track record evaluation -- and careful probing about the vision -- should tease out some hints in this direction. A sense of entitlement, or of learned helplessness, usually outs itself under polite conversational fire.
- wcgortel 16y ago
  As a non-technical guy, I'd like very much to be evaluated on those criteria. I think ya'll should be looking for something else though: Will this guy need to hire a ton of employees? If you're looking at someone with a history, that history needs to be evaluated both in the context of the corporate resources available and the size of his team. Be aware that managing a large team might mean helplessness in a small one.
throwaway40m 16y ago
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Technology/images-2/steve-jobs-young.jpg http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Technology/images-2/st... Knows how to sell, of course.
gersh 16y ago
As a technical founder, should I bring in a business co-founder? I think the article is pretty good. I'd want someone who is: - Can sell without BSing. - Knows how to get in touch with important people - Good at pitching to investors - Real personable and good at communicating with customers - Can write well - Has an eye for UX - Has enough technical knowledge to communicate technical issues with customers - Understands startups A non-technical co-founder needs to have skills. They just aren't technical. I think the term non-technical co-founder is misleading because it defines someone but what they can't do. I'd rather say sale founder or biz-dev founder.
daralthus 16y ago
To answer the question, I would advise you to go on a startup weekend. (54 hour hackmarathon, but not just developers, but marketing and biz people also)
semerda 16y ago
In my opinion the following 3 key traits will get you at least 90% of the way.. a. the "right attitude", b. someone that can "challenge you" and c. "know the industry" which your competing in really well. The rest can be learnt on the job.
tuhin 16y ago
I am curious here. Does a UI Designer fall in the category of a Non technical co-founder? If so how do the dynamics change when a designer approaches a developer to co-found a team for an idea that the designer came up with?

87 points by nathanh 16y ago

Good points. The contrary is way more difficult i think... (me being a biz founder, finding tech partners or employees can be really tricky). For the non-tech guys, in an early stage startup, i would definitely look at : - product skills => can the guy understand what customers/users need ? and if he doesn't, will he ask them? - tech skills => you guys need to speak the same language. even if he's a beginner, has he tried coding in RoR, php, python, ...? will you speak the same language? - network => does he know investors and bloggers? or at least know people who know them? - traction and community => can the guy move heaven and earth to get people on board? - recklessness => is he okay with the risk, the absence of salary, the non-benefits, ...?

lolizbak 16y ago
And actually, the most important thing: he crashed a startup already, and one of the reasons, he reckons, was the lack of a tech cofounder. You got yourself a jewel in that case :)

petervandijck 16y ago

Easiest way: what have they done in the past. Past performance and future performance and all that.

bpeters 16y ago

Being a biz founder I picked up technical skills and built a crappy (MVP of MVP's) prototype to pitch to tech founders. If the non-tech founder can't even learn enough code to get anything built then I would be concerned for their level of dedication for their own idea. Even though my prototype was terrible and even made the other founders laugh, they could see my level of dedication and my ability to get something done. To me being a biz founder we need to be the scapegoat of the startup, no pride all humility and can sell the shit out of anything.

trustfundbaby 16y ago
If the non-tech founder can't even learn enough code to get anything built then I would be concerned for their level of dedication for their own idea. --------------------- I think thats a little much. Part of being a good business man is knowing where you weaknesses lie, and knowing how to plug those holes in your game. So why would you waste valuable time trying to pick up a skill that you're probably not interesting in having and will probably not put to use, when you can spend that time raising money to hire a developer or get one to come in with you and handle the development?
- lolizbak 16y ago
  Cause we're building startups. Period. If you were to open a farm in the midwest, would you really hire an IBM sales rep to sell your farm products who never milked a cow before?
  - th 16y ago
    Not quite the same. If a non-technical founder is looking to pitch a website idea to developers and they have they are choosing to spend time picking up HTML and JavaScript or throwing together detailed mocks for each page, the mocks would probably be better use of their time.
- coolgeek 16y ago
  You're missing the point - it's about proving dedication. Building a prototype, no matter how crappy, tells potential tech cofounders that you're less likely to bail when you see something shinier. That said, raising money (or investing your own) would indeed serve the same purpose.
  - trustfundbaby 16y ago
    Actually I think you're missing the point. What I was responding to was this -----> If the non-tech founder can't even learn enough code to get anything built then I would be concerned for their level of dedication for their own idea Just because a guy doesn't go to learn how to code doesn't mean you should immediately get worried about their dedication to their project. I see the point you're trying to make, and I agree with it, but it quite different from what I was addressing.

nhangen 16y ago

I'm a NT co-founder trying to become a technical founder, so this is an interesting read. To be honest, I think the most value that someone like that can bring is a network. If you can get introductions, some PR, and some buzz, then you can get enough cash from sales to buy some of the other necessities.

PaulHoule 16y ago

The article oddly seems to be a converse of the often asked "how do i find a technical co-founder?" It seems to assume that you're a technical person who is looking for somebody else's start-up to join. Personally I'd like to know what to do if you're a technical person with some technical ~AND~ business ideas, who's got a product that's got a little traction and is looking for someone who can help with marketing and execution.

Rariel 16y ago
I think it depends on what type of marketing you need, e.g. online ad sales? B2b? Where you're trying to go with your startup or business probably should determine what type of help you need.

GeoffreyHull 16y ago

I'll probably get down-voted for this being as though this is Hacker News and the majority of people here are "tech types" as opposed to "biz types". However as a biz founder its probably necessary to speak up: Common philosophies I hear exposited in tech circles is, "Biz co-founders are a dime a dozen" and “Good ideas, in and of themselves, are worthless”. The argument being everyone on the planet is capable of formulating ideas, thus “good” ideas can be found in overwhelming abundance. One may hear this suggestion advanced amongst mostly “tech types”, such as programmers, developers, engineers, etc. Many of them believe value is derived from the conversion of an idea into a physical product. What group of people are typically required to convert the idea into a physical product? Why the programmers, developers, and engineers of course! In this type of climate, the notion that good ideas alone being worthless or that biz co-founders are worth less than their tech counterparts becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. This notion is advanced by none other than those that stand to gain the most from it: the programmers, developers, and engineers. Sorry guys. I don't buy it. Read more on this phenomenon here: http://thegeoffreyhull.com/post/3767537182 http://thegeoffreyhull.com/post/3767537182.

Rariel 16y ago
I've thought a lot about this "Great Team v. Great idea" and I think what you're saying is partially true. You have great teams failing right this very second, and it's viewed as ok given that they are, well, great teams. But that still leaves them failing. I think a major problem is that neither the biz nor the tech co-founders are the lynch pin, it's the correct combo of both + an amazing idea + that 'never give up' determination + timing. I think there are a lot of people getting full of themselves, be it devs, biz people, or VCs. I think it would do us all well to realize that yes, we DO need each other.
benmathes 16y ago
Certainly the execution _alone_ isn't the only thing that matters. The idea _alone_ also isn't the only thing that matters. Both engineering and product/biz types are needed to turn an idea into a good business. That's execution. Engineers aren't the only ones who can execute and pivot.
porter 16y ago

baberuth 16y ago

A lot of good points in there, but it seems to be a little bit on the "developer centric fantasy" side of things, particularly on the Traction section. Non tech cofounders that are getting 30 users before trying to find a technical cofounder aren't having trouble finding tech cofounders. Non tech cofounders that have 10 people committed to paying up to 1000/mo and signed letters of intent from the 5 of them (120k/year, 60k guaranteed) before building a product are few and far between. These guys are gems, and betting on them is a good bet. Its like non-tech founders trying to partner with proven Facebook employee #13. Unless you're equally proven as a dev, its hard to justify asking for that level of accomplishment from your cofounder. Much of the "find a cofounder" game is about making good decisions when its not such an obvious call.

sskates 16y ago
"This is not just speculation: from our position (Hirelite connects developers with companies looking to hire them via speed interviewing over video chat), startups value a developer about 50% more than a non-technical person with a similar level of experience/skill/etc" They have some basis that developers are more valuable based on market forces alone, which means that you need to set your expectations accordingly.
haploid 16y ago
"Non tech cofounders that have 10 people committed to paying up to 1000/mo and signed letters of intent from the 5 of them (120k/year, 60k guaranteed) before building a product are few and far between." What? I would suggest that the abovereferenced set of cofounders is equal to the null set. I can't imagine anyone dumb enough to commit to a $12k annual contract for vaporware from a company whose very existence is contingent on finding 9 other suckers just as dumb as you are. The closest model I can think of is games software publishing, but that exists in an area with a known customer base. Nobody in the real world, running a real enterprise, with real money on the line, would gamble like that - at least none of the people I work with.
- dman 16y ago
  Well definitely not the null set. Bloomberg had Merill Lynch basically fund his entire development before the product even existed.

jonnathanson 16y ago

1) Non-tech co-founders need to really understand their target segment on an intimate level. They may not be able to write all the code, but they should be the masters of the user domain and/or business domain that the product is going to serve. They should know what the right strategic goals of the business should be, given their target user. They should know exactly what problem they're trying to solve, for whom, and (roughly) how. 2) They should also have strong, well-informed opinions about UX. Take them to task on what makes a good UX or even a good UI. Press them for examples of good and bad UX design, or have them walk you through a mockup of something you've done in the past. You should be interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you. They should have theories and opinions on how UX affects business strategy, and vice versa, and not just opinions on what looks pretty or simple. You want to get the impression that this person would have made (or was) a great product manager at a big company, had he or she not been a founder. 3) They should be great salesmen (or women), but not bullshit artists. There's often a fine line here, but the red flags are usually obvious. Look at his or her track record. Look at the realism of his or her vision. Look at his or her ability to model and properly account for risk, competitive threat, etc. If you can pinpoint a critical dependency or risk to the business that he or she can't, that's a bad sign. 4) They should be willing and able to bust their asses and constantly learn. They should not expect to kick back and let you build the product for them. Sort of hard to suss this out in conversation alone, but track record evaluation -- and careful probing about the vision -- should tease out some hints in this direction. A sense of entitlement, or of learned helplessness, usually outs itself under polite conversational fire.

wcgortel 16y ago
As a non-technical guy, I'd like very much to be evaluated on those criteria. I think ya'll should be looking for something else though: Will this guy need to hire a ton of employees? If you're looking at someone with a history, that history needs to be evaluated both in the context of the corporate resources available and the size of his team. Be aware that managing a large team might mean helplessness in a small one.

throwaway40m 16y ago

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Technology/images-2/steve-jobs-young.jpg http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Technology/images-2/st... Knows how to sell, of course.

gersh 16y ago

As a technical founder, should I bring in a business co-founder? I think the article is pretty good. I'd want someone who is: - Can sell without BSing. - Knows how to get in touch with important people - Good at pitching to investors - Real personable and good at communicating with customers - Can write well - Has an eye for UX - Has enough technical knowledge to communicate technical issues with customers - Understands startups A non-technical co-founder needs to have skills. They just aren't technical. I think the term non-technical co-founder is misleading because it defines someone but what they can't do. I'd rather say sale founder or biz-dev founder.

daralthus 16y ago

To answer the question, I would advise you to go on a startup weekend. (54 hour hackmarathon, but not just developers, but marketing and biz people also)

semerda 16y ago

In my opinion the following 3 key traits will get you at least 90% of the way.. a. the "right attitude", b. someone that can "challenge you" and c. "know the industry" which your competing in really well. The rest can be learnt on the job.

tuhin 16y ago

I am curious here. Does a UI Designer fall in the category of a Non technical co-founder? If so how do the dynamics change when a designer approaches a developer to co-found a team for an idea that the designer came up with?