4 ms·

Your statement that Mexico is a narco-state as a direct consequence of USA fighting against the importers of illegal drugs from Mexico cannot simply be given bu

Your statement that Mexico is a narco-state as a direct consequence of USA fighting against the importers of illegal drugs from Mexico cannot simply be given but clearly requires expounding. And even if it were, the implication is the nation of USA isn't entitled to fight against illegal, anti-social, and violent activity is absurd.

triceratops 6y ago
> the implication is the nation of USA isn't entitled to fight against illegal, anti-social, and violent activity is absurd. If drugs are outlawed, only outlaws will deal in drugs. The cartels are terrible, evil organizations made up of despicable and desperate human beings. There is nothing good to say about them. But if drugs were strongly regulated, instead of made illegal, and drug addiction treated like an illness, would they even exist?
- unishark 6y ago
  Latin America has a problem with corruption and the rule of law generally that goes well beyond drugs. I don't really know how to fix it and don't believe anyone else does either. I am certainly willing to support an attempt at legalization since it has a moral basis in "freedom" and such. But the above poster is not wrong. If murder-for-hire, sex trafficking in children, etc are outlawed, then only outlaws will do those too. Meanwhile Canada did not become a weak and corrupt narco state, despite having an even larger border with the US. For that matter Japan's (even stricter) drug laws didn't turn Korea and China or any other neighbor into a narco states. The problem is more complicated than people want to believe.
- pnako 6y ago
  The cartels would obviously immediately stop chopping up journalists in pieces and would retrain to become car mechanics, bakers, factory workers, etc.
  - triceratops 6y ago
    No. But they might have been involved in other, less profitable criminal enterprises (stolen cars, maybe) and had less power and influence than they do now.
coliveira 6y ago
It is the US that created the illegal activity, but putting this activity into illegality in the first place. The war on drugs only made the criminal problem in Latin America worse by creating the incentives to become a criminal. Moreover, the US has already been caught dealing directly on drugs (Iran contras), and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the last time.
groby_b 6y ago
That claim would hold much more water if the US wasn't actively involved in the drug trade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_traffi... If you like books, I highly recommend "The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade" Or if the US hadn't made its own opioid crisis, which caused skyrocketing demand for hard drugs (and is the result of a pharma industry that is completely out of control) https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/mexicos-drug-war https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/mexicos-drug-war Or if the US was in any way concerned with addressing the actual drug consumption crisis.
pstuart 6y ago
I'll be charitable and assume you're well-intentioned. Your argument makes no sense. If the drugs weren't illegal then your whole argument goes up in a puff of smoke. If you can't prove to me that this "war" is valid, then any premise you base upon it is nullified. Go ahead, sell me on how the war is about keeping America safe.

triceratops 6y ago

> the implication is the nation of USA isn't entitled to fight against illegal, anti-social, and violent activity is absurd. If drugs are outlawed, only outlaws will deal in drugs. The cartels are terrible, evil organizations made up of despicable and desperate human beings. There is nothing good to say about them. But if drugs were strongly regulated, instead of made illegal, and drug addiction treated like an illness, would they even exist?

unishark 6y ago
Latin America has a problem with corruption and the rule of law generally that goes well beyond drugs. I don't really know how to fix it and don't believe anyone else does either. I am certainly willing to support an attempt at legalization since it has a moral basis in "freedom" and such. But the above poster is not wrong. If murder-for-hire, sex trafficking in children, etc are outlawed, then only outlaws will do those too. Meanwhile Canada did not become a weak and corrupt narco state, despite having an even larger border with the US. For that matter Japan's (even stricter) drug laws didn't turn Korea and China or any other neighbor into a narco states. The problem is more complicated than people want to believe.
pnako 6y ago
The cartels would obviously immediately stop chopping up journalists in pieces and would retrain to become car mechanics, bakers, factory workers, etc.
- triceratops 6y ago
  No. But they might have been involved in other, less profitable criminal enterprises (stolen cars, maybe) and had less power and influence than they do now.

coliveira 6y ago

It is the US that created the illegal activity, but putting this activity into illegality in the first place. The war on drugs only made the criminal problem in Latin America worse by creating the incentives to become a criminal. Moreover, the US has already been caught dealing directly on drugs (Iran contras), and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the last time.

groby_b 6y ago

That claim would hold much more water if the US wasn't actively involved in the drug trade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_traffi... If you like books, I highly recommend "The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade" Or if the US hadn't made its own opioid crisis, which caused skyrocketing demand for hard drugs (and is the result of a pharma industry that is completely out of control) https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/mexicos-drug-war https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/mexicos-drug-war Or if the US was in any way concerned with addressing the actual drug consumption crisis.

pstuart 6y ago

I'll be charitable and assume you're well-intentioned. Your argument makes no sense. If the drugs weren't illegal then your whole argument goes up in a puff of smoke. If you can't prove to me that this "war" is valid, then any premise you base upon it is nullified. Go ahead, sell me on how the war is about keeping America safe.