5 ms·

As a (pre-Covid) extreme frequent flyer, supersonic and other rapid point to point initiatives are thoroughly unenticing. Part of the reason I loved long fligh

As a (pre-Covid) extreme frequent flyer, supersonic and other rapid point to point initiatives are thoroughly unenticing. Part of the reason I loved long flights was the ability to put away the laptop and zone out to a book or movie with some wine before landing, dealing with immigration, hotels, Ubers, and days of frenetic, high stress meetings afterward. The prospect of trying to optimize how fast we can jump from one business trip to another is uninspiring.

ghaff 6y ago
I don’t especially get the supersonic flight love especially from people who will never pay the $10k or whatever to take a transatlantic supersonic flight. I don’t love long economy flights. But honestly there’s not a lot wrong with modern lie flat business. A few hours of my time is not that big a deal.
- shermozle 6y ago
  You sound like someone who doesn't live that far away from your destination. I live in Australia. Bring the boom boom flights! If I can get to London or New York in less than 20 hours, I will be very happy.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Flying trans-Pacific or the equivalent without refueling requires a whole different class of aircraft and seems very unlikely.
    - mastazi 6y ago
      But parent didn't say they wanted that without any refueling. A London - Sydney or London - Melbourne flight would have several eligible refueling locations in Asia and Middle East. Australia - West Coast of the US would be more challenging I guess, but probably not impossible, perhaps some of the diversion airports in the Pacific would be able to support refueling operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversion_airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversion_airport
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Once you start having refueling stops, you're losing a lot of the benefits to supersonic flight. Many of the inefficiencies are in the subsonic range and now you're going to be in queues for takeoff.
        mastazi 6y ago
        Yes I see what you mean. I would be curious to see some estimates though(I'm not competent enough to try that) - how much time, if any, would you save, compared to an average flight, even taking the necessary refueling stops?
        bobthepanda 6y ago
        The airports where one might refuel don't necessarily have to be big congested megahubs. Boom's a small plane, I wonder what the runway requirements are?
        maccam94 6y ago
        The Boom plans to land at 185 knots/213MPH, comparable to a 737-800. They probably need a fraction of the distance to stop though, since the plane has about 1/3 of the seating capacity.
        TylerE 6y ago
        Wouldn't be so sure. Stopping depends mainly on how good the thrust reversers are. Wheel brakes will only take you so far (and being lighter doesn't meaningfully help you.. lighter weight means less traction.
        thombat 6y ago
        Airliners are required to be able to land with reverse-thrust inoperative: reversers are useful for shorter taxi times and reducing brake wear but they aren't essential.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      Rome wasn't built in a day. We didn't get to testing 17,000 km flights overnight.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
nscalf 6y ago
This sounds like you need a career change. People who want to get where they are going will absolutely welcome a faster plane.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I honestly don't get that. One can enjoy one's career and still enjoy spending time watching movies and reading books. I don't love flying even upgraded economy but I'm perfectly fine flying up front in normal times. Yes, trans-pacific is a bit of a drag but even that isn't a huge deal a few times a year.
- taneq 6y ago
  But what if you just enjoy flying? I still get a thrill out of it even in cattle class. (Getting up at 3am to make the 5am flights they put us on is a whole different matter, though...) Edit: These are 1.5-2hr intrastate flights, though. If I were going nonstop to London every week I would be all there for the supersonic. Actually who am I kidding, I wanna fly supersonic just for its own sake.
  - tedunangst 6y ago
    I'm sure there will still be some slow flights for the people who just like flying for the movies.
pedalpete 6y ago
You're not doing Sydney->Los Angeles, Santiago->Tokyo type long-haul, are you. When you're continent jumping (excluding Eastern US to Europe) 7hrs at supersonic is long enough to get a movie and relax a bit. When you're getting 16 hour flights on a regular basis, you get used to it, but when you've seen all the movies, you realize how much time you've wasted on a plane.
- ls612 6y ago
  I’ve done US to Sydney twice, I just drank the free booze then popped a sleeping pill and woke up just in time for breakfast before landing. Not ideal at all but not terrible either.
- galacticaactual 6y ago
  I used to commute from Sydney to Europe every two weeks. So. Yes. I was doing the long hauls.
- notahacker 6y ago
  The trouble is, supersonic flight is optimised for flights which take 7hrs in regular aircraft, not longer flights Boom isn't claiming it might have the range for in one hop. Even where fuel stops somewhere like Hawaii are practical, the disadvantage of the supersonic flight is that its still long enough for you to notice they're a lot less comfortable than the first class seat you could have slept and got a morning's worth of work done in...
nabilhat 6y ago
Same here, I'd rather upgrade to a comfy class for 12 hours than spend multiples of the cost to shave off a few. If it's flying on a schedule the only real point is less seat time (okay, also whee fast airplane), much of the time slow airplanes will have left and landed before the fast airplane's next scheduled departure and landing. These will make for one hell of a business owned or leased aircraft, although that doesn't change my preference. If there's one nice thing about air time on a business trip, it's the chance of taking a break from coworkers, like them or not.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  To address the "empty Concorde" problem, Boom is explicitly targeting a 50-seat business class layout with similar seat cost per mile. Filling 50 comfortable seats is an order of magnitude easier than filling 100 uncomfortable ones.
  - smachiz 6y ago
    Umm... ask every 'business class only' airline that has come (and gone...) about that.
    - jimbob21 6y ago
      As they say, the best way to make a million dollars is have a billion and start an airline.
      - wahern 6y ago
        David Neeleman might disagree. But then again, his M.O. isn't chasing business customers.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      Building an entire airline around it is stupid. Building certain premium flights around it, not necessarily; Singapore Airlines operates a 67-seat business class on a plane from Newark to Singapore that only has business and premium economy. BA operates a 32-seat business-only flight from London City to New York via Shannon. And these are just the subsonic flights. JAL is one of the bigger investors in this project, so it's not as if there's no interest at all.
bobthepanda 6y ago
The range perhaps doesn't allow this now, but if we could make the really, really long flights much shorter it might be nice. Being confined in a tin can gets old for me after hour 12.
mrfusion 6y ago
You’re not the target market.
credit_guy 6y ago
> zone out to a book or movie I can do that when I'm home. But at home I can also stand up, go for a walk, or go to the restroom without having to wait in line, or go to sleep, etc. In a long flight I can do none of these. I can instead suffer from dry air, I have a hard time sleeping in something that is a bad approximation of a bed, etc, etc. Oh, and don't ask me if my kids enjoy 10-hour flights (of which they have experienced a few, unfortunately). Sometimes it's so stressful for them that their immune system is ravaged, so we spend time with doctors instead of enjoying vacation. The shorter the flight, the better for me. If I can afford it. But before it's cheap it first has to exist.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I get that some people don't travel well although I'd probably argue that a faster plane doesn't eliminate jet lag, dealing with airports, etc. And comfort, being able to walk around, etc. is mostly just a function of the market for air tickets at particular price points. After all, the upper deck on a 747 used to be a first class lounge. But it got turned into conventional seating on AFAIK all commercial flights.

ghaff 6y ago

I don’t especially get the supersonic flight love especially from people who will never pay the $10k or whatever to take a transatlantic supersonic flight. I don’t love long economy flights. But honestly there’s not a lot wrong with modern lie flat business. A few hours of my time is not that big a deal.

shermozle 6y ago
You sound like someone who doesn't live that far away from your destination. I live in Australia. Bring the boom boom flights! If I can get to London or New York in less than 20 hours, I will be very happy.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Flying trans-Pacific or the equivalent without refueling requires a whole different class of aircraft and seems very unlikely.
  - mastazi 6y ago
    But parent didn't say they wanted that without any refueling. A London - Sydney or London - Melbourne flight would have several eligible refueling locations in Asia and Middle East. Australia - West Coast of the US would be more challenging I guess, but probably not impossible, perhaps some of the diversion airports in the Pacific would be able to support refueling operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversion_airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversion_airport
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Once you start having refueling stops, you're losing a lot of the benefits to supersonic flight. Many of the inefficiencies are in the subsonic range and now you're going to be in queues for takeoff.
      - mastazi 6y ago
        Yes I see what you mean. I would be curious to see some estimates though(I'm not competent enough to try that) - how much time, if any, would you save, compared to an average flight, even taking the necessary refueling stops?
      - bobthepanda 6y ago
        The airports where one might refuel don't necessarily have to be big congested megahubs. Boom's a small plane, I wonder what the runway requirements are?
        maccam94 6y ago
        The Boom plans to land at 185 knots/213MPH, comparable to a 737-800. They probably need a fraction of the distance to stop though, since the plane has about 1/3 of the seating capacity.
        TylerE 6y ago
        Wouldn't be so sure. Stopping depends mainly on how good the thrust reversers are. Wheel brakes will only take you so far (and being lighter doesn't meaningfully help you.. lighter weight means less traction.
        thombat 6y ago
        Airliners are required to be able to land with reverse-thrust inoperative: reversers are useful for shorter taxi times and reducing brake wear but they aren't essential.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Rome wasn't built in a day. We didn't get to testing 17,000 km flights overnight.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

nscalf 6y ago

This sounds like you need a career change. People who want to get where they are going will absolutely welcome a faster plane.

ghaff 6y ago
I honestly don't get that. One can enjoy one's career and still enjoy spending time watching movies and reading books. I don't love flying even upgraded economy but I'm perfectly fine flying up front in normal times. Yes, trans-pacific is a bit of a drag but even that isn't a huge deal a few times a year.
taneq 6y ago
But what if you just enjoy flying? I still get a thrill out of it even in cattle class. (Getting up at 3am to make the 5am flights they put us on is a whole different matter, though...) Edit: These are 1.5-2hr intrastate flights, though. If I were going nonstop to London every week I would be all there for the supersonic. Actually who am I kidding, I wanna fly supersonic just for its own sake.
- tedunangst 6y ago
  I'm sure there will still be some slow flights for the people who just like flying for the movies.

pedalpete 6y ago

You're not doing Sydney->Los Angeles, Santiago->Tokyo type long-haul, are you. When you're continent jumping (excluding Eastern US to Europe) 7hrs at supersonic is long enough to get a movie and relax a bit. When you're getting 16 hour flights on a regular basis, you get used to it, but when you've seen all the movies, you realize how much time you've wasted on a plane.

ls612 6y ago
I’ve done US to Sydney twice, I just drank the free booze then popped a sleeping pill and woke up just in time for breakfast before landing. Not ideal at all but not terrible either.
galacticaactual 6y ago
I used to commute from Sydney to Europe every two weeks. So. Yes. I was doing the long hauls.
notahacker 6y ago
The trouble is, supersonic flight is optimised for flights which take 7hrs in regular aircraft, not longer flights Boom isn't claiming it might have the range for in one hop. Even where fuel stops somewhere like Hawaii are practical, the disadvantage of the supersonic flight is that its still long enough for you to notice they're a lot less comfortable than the first class seat you could have slept and got a morning's worth of work done in...

nabilhat 6y ago

Same here, I'd rather upgrade to a comfy class for 12 hours than spend multiples of the cost to shave off a few. If it's flying on a schedule the only real point is less seat time (okay, also whee fast airplane), much of the time slow airplanes will have left and landed before the fast airplane's next scheduled departure and landing. These will make for one hell of a business owned or leased aircraft, although that doesn't change my preference. If there's one nice thing about air time on a business trip, it's the chance of taking a break from coworkers, like them or not.

bobthepanda 6y ago
To address the "empty Concorde" problem, Boom is explicitly targeting a 50-seat business class layout with similar seat cost per mile. Filling 50 comfortable seats is an order of magnitude easier than filling 100 uncomfortable ones.
- smachiz 6y ago
  Umm... ask every 'business class only' airline that has come (and gone...) about that.
  - jimbob21 6y ago
    As they say, the best way to make a million dollars is have a billion and start an airline.
    - wahern 6y ago
      David Neeleman might disagree. But then again, his M.O. isn't chasing business customers.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Building an entire airline around it is stupid. Building certain premium flights around it, not necessarily; Singapore Airlines operates a 67-seat business class on a plane from Newark to Singapore that only has business and premium economy. BA operates a 32-seat business-only flight from London City to New York via Shannon. And these are just the subsonic flights. JAL is one of the bigger investors in this project, so it's not as if there's no interest at all.

bobthepanda 6y ago

The range perhaps doesn't allow this now, but if we could make the really, really long flights much shorter it might be nice. Being confined in a tin can gets old for me after hour 12.

mrfusion 6y ago

You’re not the target market.

credit_guy 6y ago

> zone out to a book or movie I can do that when I'm home. But at home I can also stand up, go for a walk, or go to the restroom without having to wait in line, or go to sleep, etc. In a long flight I can do none of these. I can instead suffer from dry air, I have a hard time sleeping in something that is a bad approximation of a bed, etc, etc. Oh, and don't ask me if my kids enjoy 10-hour flights (of which they have experienced a few, unfortunately). Sometimes it's so stressful for them that their immune system is ravaged, so we spend time with doctors instead of enjoying vacation. The shorter the flight, the better for me. If I can afford it. But before it's cheap it first has to exist.

ghaff 6y ago
I get that some people don't travel well although I'd probably argue that a faster plane doesn't eliminate jet lag, dealing with airports, etc. And comfort, being able to walk around, etc. is mostly just a function of the market for air tickets at particular price points. After all, the upper deck on a 747 used to be a first class lounge. But it got turned into conventional seating on AFAIK all commercial flights.