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> This may be the first interesting/good use for the Touch Bar many HN'ers have seen. I've only recently started using a device with the TouchBar, but as a dev

> This may be the first interesting/good use for the Touch Bar many HN'ers have seen. I've only recently started using a device with the TouchBar, but as a developer I've really enjoyed having debugging controls on it. It is nice being able to have the main screen focused on the running application and having the secondary debugging tools on the TouchBar.

breatheoften 6y ago
debugging imo is terrible via the touchbar -- but was also terrible with function keys! Binding a two character keystroke (cmd-shift-c for step next for me) is vastly superior ux than a function key or touchbar provide ... i think the location of the touchbar above the useable space in the keyboard is a huge issue with it -- it's just not a useable space. it was hard to use function keys as well for this reason. the touchbar would be kind of interesting for the creative uses i think if it was a separate physical device that you could put where you want it. a thing with a magnet maybe that you can attach to the bottom of the keyboard beneath the touchpad ... it's there when you are in an editing mentality and wanting to use those sliders -- relax and leave your fingers down close to you rather than raised and prone and stretching ...
misnome 6y ago
How do you mean? More than the usual start stop step-in step-over? With physical keys you can “home” your finger and press without drifting or looking down at the bar, and I find that much easier. About the only thing I’ve found useful is when plugging in a projector and getting the “mirror or extend” buttons directly rather than having to remember which symbol it is. Every other case it’s felt inferior and gotten in the way (like display/sound/volume access in an app that uses it)
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I've found it really useful to be able to stop an app without doing anything that would require it loosing focus. Without this I need to do run something like sleep 10; kill -STOP `pgrep app` in the terminal and then scramble to get the app in the state I want.
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    Do you know about Cmd+Alt+Esc?
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I mean, I know that you can force quit apps from it…
    - rswail 6y ago
      No but thank you, I do know :) I know UXs are supposed to be discoverable these days, but FFS, do I just press random combinations of meta keys to find out what they do?
      - jeffhuys 6y ago
        If you click on the apple logo top-left, you'll see "Force quit apps" with the relevant shortcut next to it.
- pcr910303 6y ago
  > With physical keys you can “home” your finger and press without drifting or looking down at the bar, and I find that much easier. You can also develop muscle memory with the Touch Bar as I've mentioned in my comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23786774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23786774
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    Can you consistently activate things on it without looking and also know for sure whether or not you activated it? Is there some kind of force feedback?
    - pcr910303 6y ago
      Well, I do use an app called HapticKey which provides haptic feedback, but yes I was able to consistently activate things on it without looking even before I started using the app. Most actions I used provided direct feedback on the screen (e.g. deleting, opening a tab, opening an info window, etc...) so feedback was less an issue.
bsdubernerd 6y ago
The parent's post is spot on IMHO. The analog possibilities of the touchbar can really help in doing creative work, and I never thought of it this way. But it's still overblown though, since the same interface is available on the xxl touchpad and would be better served with a gesture (so that aiming a narrow spot is not necessary). As a dev I would never replace regular function keys. You certainly didn't lack shortcuts for debugging without a touchbar. But I definitely see the point it being an accessibility feature (in that case though, my thought goes to something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard instead)

breatheoften 6y ago

debugging imo is terrible via the touchbar -- but was also terrible with function keys! Binding a two character keystroke (cmd-shift-c for step next for me) is vastly superior ux than a function key or touchbar provide ... i think the location of the touchbar above the useable space in the keyboard is a huge issue with it -- it's just not a useable space. it was hard to use function keys as well for this reason. the touchbar would be kind of interesting for the creative uses i think if it was a separate physical device that you could put where you want it. a thing with a magnet maybe that you can attach to the bottom of the keyboard beneath the touchpad ... it's there when you are in an editing mentality and wanting to use those sliders -- relax and leave your fingers down close to you rather than raised and prone and stretching ...

misnome 6y ago

How do you mean? More than the usual start stop step-in step-over? With physical keys you can “home” your finger and press without drifting or looking down at the bar, and I find that much easier. About the only thing I’ve found useful is when plugging in a projector and getting the “mirror or extend” buttons directly rather than having to remember which symbol it is. Every other case it’s felt inferior and gotten in the way (like display/sound/volume access in an app that uses it)

saagarjha 6y ago
I've found it really useful to be able to stop an app without doing anything that would require it loosing focus. Without this I need to do run something like sleep 10; kill -STOP `pgrep app` in the terminal and then scramble to get the app in the state I want.
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  Do you know about Cmd+Alt+Esc?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I mean, I know that you can force quit apps from it…
  - rswail 6y ago
    No but thank you, I do know :) I know UXs are supposed to be discoverable these days, but FFS, do I just press random combinations of meta keys to find out what they do?
    - jeffhuys 6y ago
      If you click on the apple logo top-left, you'll see "Force quit apps" with the relevant shortcut next to it.
pcr910303 6y ago
> With physical keys you can “home” your finger and press without drifting or looking down at the bar, and I find that much easier. You can also develop muscle memory with the Touch Bar as I've mentioned in my comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23786774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23786774
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  Can you consistently activate things on it without looking and also know for sure whether or not you activated it? Is there some kind of force feedback?
  - pcr910303 6y ago
    Well, I do use an app called HapticKey which provides haptic feedback, but yes I was able to consistently activate things on it without looking even before I started using the app. Most actions I used provided direct feedback on the screen (e.g. deleting, opening a tab, opening an info window, etc...) so feedback was less an issue.

bsdubernerd 6y ago

The parent's post is spot on IMHO. The analog possibilities of the touchbar can really help in doing creative work, and I never thought of it this way. But it's still overblown though, since the same interface is available on the xxl touchpad and would be better served with a gesture (so that aiming a narrow spot is not necessary). As a dev I would never replace regular function keys. You certainly didn't lack shortcuts for debugging without a touchbar. But I definitely see the point it being an accessibility feature (in that case though, my thought goes to something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard instead)