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Little apps like this demonstrate why the touchbar really is a useful user interface for certain things. Had Apple had the good sense to introduce it without r

Little apps like this demonstrate why the touchbar really is a useful user interface for certain things. Had Apple had the good sense to introduce it without removing an entire row of keys used heavily by the developers tasked with writing software for it it might have actually worked out.

stronglikedan 6y ago
I don't own a Mac, but I've heard of the touchbar. I just never imagined it replaced the function keys. That's insanity! (But I'm still stewing over modern keyboards removing the right Win key, so I can't lock my workstation with one hand any more, so don't mind me.)
- FriendlyNormie 6y ago
  You’ve “heard of” the Touch Bar and you felt like you had a valuable contribution to make to this thread?
- l2p 6y ago
  Right hand thumb to win key + pinky to "L" as I am getting up to walk away still works for me.
  - stronglikedan 6y ago
    My hands are pretty big, but I can only do that on non-full-sized keyboards. And to make matters worse I need an ergonomic split keyboard due to issues with my hands
- randomdata 6y ago
  Apple has downplayed the existence of the function keys for much longer than the TouchBar though. On prior generation MacBooks the function keys provided actions (volume, brightness, etc.) as their primary function, requiring you to also press the Fn key to access the true F1-12 keys. TouchBar MacBooks are much the same. If you press the Fn key, the TouchBar shows F1-F2.
  - stoolpigeon 6y ago
    The keyboard settings allow users to switch the behavior so that the function keys behave as such without holding down Fn. For me Minecraft is the driving reason for wanting physical function keys and a big part of why I still use my 2015 mbp.
melling 6y ago
It took courage. ;-) I only want the Escape key and it’s back. I’ll trade in my 2013 MBP for an ARM laptop next year.
stimpson_j_cat 6y ago
Doesn't this demonstrate why the touchbar isn't very useful? Every part of this UI would be better without it--physical keys to play the samples, a big touchpad to use slider controls with, the hi-def screen to see it all happen. (It's a really neat demo)
- pampa 6y ago
  Just a thought. Instead of replacing the f keys and escape, they should have just replaced the whole area under the keyboard where the trackpad is with a touch screen. It is a win-win. Imagine a huge touch interface where we already expect one, with haptic feedback AND visual feedback.
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    We can already imagine that. Apple increased the size of the touchpad for no good reason. And palm rejection constantly fails causing the cursor to jump as you're typing or pressing key shortcuts.
    - breakfastduck 6y ago
      I can see them expanding the cursor behavior in iPadOS into macOS, where its magnetic and it's more like a touch surface. If there was any trackpad to pull that off its the macbook trackpads.
      - dmitriid 6y ago
        Why would you ever want that in a desktop OS?
        breakfastduck 6y ago
        It depends on the execution. It feels super nice on iPad and if you're running a Catalyst app or such on macOS that's designed for it, it could be cool to be able to toggle between the cursors.
makecheck 6y ago
Even if Apple could demonstrate clear value for certain niche applications, those applications could have been served by a successful add-on USB peripheral (not unlike replacing an in-box device with a better mouse or keyboard). Instead, they saddled every one of their users with this thing, where it has remained at best in limbo between “occasionally useful” and “worse than the original”. I can say without a doubt that the only reason I finally broke down and bought a new laptop is because (1) they finally came to their senses with the physical Esc key, and (2) BetterTouchTool exists.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  > those applications could have been served by a successful add-on USB peripheral Or you know, shipping a touch screen like almost every other $2000 laptop on the market.
aloer 6y ago
I always thought the Touch Bar would’ve been better between trackpad and keyboard. Essentially an extra input for use with the thumbs. Bit shorter than the touchbar but also more focused on just extra application specific things and not all media/F-keys Probably couldn’t get things like palm rejection right. One example interaction is similar to the iOS keyboard: swiping along the space bar will move the cursor. Being able to type and very quickly swipe underneath the space bar to reposition the cursor could be great. And so much more useful with specific buttons or “swipe stops” to jump to opening or closing bracket when for example working on code The point is, for me the placement of the Touch Bar always meant that only very deliberate And manual actions should be triggered through a touch on the opposite side of the keyboard. Everything that is to happen often or quickly is better served with a normal keyboard shortcut So essentially the bar is placed in a way that prevents it from being integrated into normal, productive processes and this leaves it as an expensive and unnecessary toy (with a handful of exceptions in creative applications)
- breakfastduck 6y ago
  This is a really interesting point of view. I use better touch tool and I get more use out of the touch bar than someone who doesn't use btt does, and placing the touchbar between the touchpad and keyboard makes a load more ergonomic sense, but it's also likely it would accidentally be triggered a LOT in that position.

stronglikedan 6y ago

I don't own a Mac, but I've heard of the touchbar. I just never imagined it replaced the function keys. That's insanity! (But I'm still stewing over modern keyboards removing the right Win key, so I can't lock my workstation with one hand any more, so don't mind me.)

FriendlyNormie 6y ago
You’ve “heard of” the Touch Bar and you felt like you had a valuable contribution to make to this thread?
l2p 6y ago
Right hand thumb to win key + pinky to "L" as I am getting up to walk away still works for me.
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  My hands are pretty big, but I can only do that on non-full-sized keyboards. And to make matters worse I need an ergonomic split keyboard due to issues with my hands
randomdata 6y ago
Apple has downplayed the existence of the function keys for much longer than the TouchBar though. On prior generation MacBooks the function keys provided actions (volume, brightness, etc.) as their primary function, requiring you to also press the Fn key to access the true F1-12 keys. TouchBar MacBooks are much the same. If you press the Fn key, the TouchBar shows F1-F2.
- stoolpigeon 6y ago
  The keyboard settings allow users to switch the behavior so that the function keys behave as such without holding down Fn. For me Minecraft is the driving reason for wanting physical function keys and a big part of why I still use my 2015 mbp.

melling 6y ago

It took courage. ;-) I only want the Escape key and it’s back. I’ll trade in my 2013 MBP for an ARM laptop next year.

stimpson_j_cat 6y ago

Doesn't this demonstrate why the touchbar isn't very useful? Every part of this UI would be better without it--physical keys to play the samples, a big touchpad to use slider controls with, the hi-def screen to see it all happen. (It's a really neat demo)

pampa 6y ago
Just a thought. Instead of replacing the f keys and escape, they should have just replaced the whole area under the keyboard where the trackpad is with a touch screen. It is a win-win. Imagine a huge touch interface where we already expect one, with haptic feedback AND visual feedback.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  We can already imagine that. Apple increased the size of the touchpad for no good reason. And palm rejection constantly fails causing the cursor to jump as you're typing or pressing key shortcuts.
  - breakfastduck 6y ago
    I can see them expanding the cursor behavior in iPadOS into macOS, where its magnetic and it's more like a touch surface. If there was any trackpad to pull that off its the macbook trackpads.
    - dmitriid 6y ago
      Why would you ever want that in a desktop OS?
      - breakfastduck 6y ago
        It depends on the execution. It feels super nice on iPad and if you're running a Catalyst app or such on macOS that's designed for it, it could be cool to be able to toggle between the cursors.

makecheck 6y ago

Even if Apple could demonstrate clear value for certain niche applications, those applications could have been served by a successful add-on USB peripheral (not unlike replacing an in-box device with a better mouse or keyboard). Instead, they saddled every one of their users with this thing, where it has remained at best in limbo between “occasionally useful” and “worse than the original”. I can say without a doubt that the only reason I finally broke down and bought a new laptop is because (1) they finally came to their senses with the physical Esc key, and (2) BetterTouchTool exists.

whywhywhywhy 6y ago
> those applications could have been served by a successful add-on USB peripheral Or you know, shipping a touch screen like almost every other $2000 laptop on the market.

aloer 6y ago

I always thought the Touch Bar would’ve been better between trackpad and keyboard. Essentially an extra input for use with the thumbs. Bit shorter than the touchbar but also more focused on just extra application specific things and not all media/F-keys Probably couldn’t get things like palm rejection right. One example interaction is similar to the iOS keyboard: swiping along the space bar will move the cursor. Being able to type and very quickly swipe underneath the space bar to reposition the cursor could be great. And so much more useful with specific buttons or “swipe stops” to jump to opening or closing bracket when for example working on code The point is, for me the placement of the Touch Bar always meant that only very deliberate And manual actions should be triggered through a touch on the opposite side of the keyboard. Everything that is to happen often or quickly is better served with a normal keyboard shortcut So essentially the bar is placed in a way that prevents it from being integrated into normal, productive processes and this leaves it as an expensive and unnecessary toy (with a handful of exceptions in creative applications)

breakfastduck 6y ago
This is a really interesting point of view. I use better touch tool and I get more use out of the touch bar than someone who doesn't use btt does, and placing the touchbar between the touchpad and keyboard makes a load more ergonomic sense, but it's also likely it would accidentally be triggered a LOT in that position.