4 ms·

But yet again, while both sides may feel this way, when measured objectively (as has been done) it's shown that almost all of the sudden polarization of the pas

But yet again, while both sides may feel this way, when measured objectively (as has been done) it's shown that almost all of the sudden polarization of the past 30 years has come from the right continuously moving further right.

lostapathy 6y ago
Have they really moved farther right, or do they seem farther to the right since a lot of politics have moved to the left over that time? See same sex marriage, for example.
- Majromax 6y ago
  A 2011-era FiveThirtyEight article (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-liberal-is-president-obama/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-liberal-is-presiden...) looked at average DW-NOMINATE scores over time for the House of Representatives. Its conclusion was: > According to the system, both parties have been on a trajectory toward more “extreme” positions since roughly 1970, the natural result of which is more polarization. However, the parties do not quite share equal responsibility for this: Republicans have moved about twice as much to the right as Democrats have to the left. Also, while the Democrats’ leftward shift was essentially a one-off event, the result of many moderate, Southern Democrats losing their seats in the early 1990s, the Republicans’ rightward transition has been continuous and steady. Although to caution too-credulous interpretation, the DW-NOMINATE scores are derived from roll-call votes, so they may be biased by the issues brought up for such votes.
  - jimbob21 6y ago
    This says the opposite, as well as being more recent. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/pew-research-center-study-shows-that-democrats-have-shifted-to-the-extreme-left/ https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/pew-research-c...
sam_goody 6y ago
> when measured objectively (as has been done) Citation needed. I have seen this claim about the left at least as much as about the right. I would definitely appreciate someone who could bring facts to the discussion. And a one sided list of things that party X did is just emotion. (Also, a good rule in honest debate is to never argue unless you have at least two advantages to the opposing position. Such that I hate Windows, but I wish Linux had their GUI... This helps bridge the "us" and "them", and gets to a much more accurate result)
- bananabreakfast 6y ago
  Look at the number of filibusters executed by party over time. The republicans have led for decades. They are responsible for each vast increase, especially during Obama. Always pushing it further and further toward nothing getting done in the name of never compromising.
- Izkata 6y ago
  There's a chart I saw once, that's I can't find now. Hopefully someone else can, with the description below. It seems that the vast majority of comparisons of left/right in the US are comparing either how many people identify with one side, or how each side views the other. This particular chart however was part of an article that tried to enumerate the actual political stances of major parties (in the US, and I think it included UK ones as a reference point, but not sure about that - may have been a separate part in the same article) and show how they changed over time. The structure of this chart was a vertical line graph, where "now" was at the top and the past was at the bottom. I think it went back to around 2000, maybe a little earlier. Being vertical it was rather distinctive and I'm hoping this jogs someone's memory so it can be found again. On it, over the past 10 years or so, the Republican party has only shifted slightly to the right, while the Democratic party veered way way way to the left. Edit: Found it: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunday/republican-platform-far-right.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunda... The specific chart I'm remembering is halfway down the page, and right below it the methodology is described.

lostapathy 6y ago

Have they really moved farther right, or do they seem farther to the right since a lot of politics have moved to the left over that time? See same sex marriage, for example.

Majromax 6y ago
A 2011-era FiveThirtyEight article (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-liberal-is-president-obama/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-liberal-is-presiden...) looked at average DW-NOMINATE scores over time for the House of Representatives. Its conclusion was: > According to the system, both parties have been on a trajectory toward more “extreme” positions since roughly 1970, the natural result of which is more polarization. However, the parties do not quite share equal responsibility for this: Republicans have moved about twice as much to the right as Democrats have to the left. Also, while the Democrats’ leftward shift was essentially a one-off event, the result of many moderate, Southern Democrats losing their seats in the early 1990s, the Republicans’ rightward transition has been continuous and steady. Although to caution too-credulous interpretation, the DW-NOMINATE scores are derived from roll-call votes, so they may be biased by the issues brought up for such votes.
- jimbob21 6y ago
  This says the opposite, as well as being more recent. https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/pew-research-center-study-shows-that-democrats-have-shifted-to-the-extreme-left/ https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/pew-research-c...

sam_goody 6y ago

> when measured objectively (as has been done) Citation needed. I have seen this claim about the left at least as much as about the right. I would definitely appreciate someone who could bring facts to the discussion. And a one sided list of things that party X did is just emotion. (Also, a good rule in honest debate is to never argue unless you have at least two advantages to the opposing position. Such that I hate Windows, but I wish Linux had their GUI... This helps bridge the "us" and "them", and gets to a much more accurate result)

bananabreakfast 6y ago
Look at the number of filibusters executed by party over time. The republicans have led for decades. They are responsible for each vast increase, especially during Obama. Always pushing it further and further toward nothing getting done in the name of never compromising.
Izkata 6y ago
There's a chart I saw once, that's I can't find now. Hopefully someone else can, with the description below. It seems that the vast majority of comparisons of left/right in the US are comparing either how many people identify with one side, or how each side views the other. This particular chart however was part of an article that tried to enumerate the actual political stances of major parties (in the US, and I think it included UK ones as a reference point, but not sure about that - may have been a separate part in the same article) and show how they changed over time. The structure of this chart was a vertical line graph, where "now" was at the top and the past was at the bottom. I think it went back to around 2000, maybe a little earlier. Being vertical it was rather distinctive and I'm hoping this jogs someone's memory so it can be found again. On it, over the past 10 years or so, the Republican party has only shifted slightly to the right, while the Democratic party veered way way way to the left. Edit: Found it: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunday/republican-platform-far-right.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunda... The specific chart I'm remembering is halfway down the page, and right below it the methodology is described.